LastDodo site & app/Feedback system in shops154 messages

I think we are talking about 2 different things now.

We must try to separate point 2 from point 1, we can then perhaps also create a system for this, for example a reporting point to remove unjustified negative and / or block accounts.
But as said first deal with point 1.

First ask a fundamental question: Who is a feedback system for?
In my opinion, these are the potential customers who want to know the current quality level of a shop.

We are discussing this, opinions differ and we must therefore look for an optimal compromise.

You can report this via the contact form. Please be well documented.

As a buyer and as a seller, I have no problem with the current system. Only when I order something from a seller that is new to me, do I view the feedback. If there is a negative feedback, I look at the buyer (does that feedback seem correct?) And the seller's reaction.

@Boekenbytes
There is nothing wrong with that, I do, the question is also 1 negative feedback from 5 years ago, you still have to punish the seller for that.

The first thing a buyer sees at the top of the shop page is the review percentage (along with the total number). Hardly anyone clicks through to read the comments, so it makes sense that sellers actually assign this score too much importance.

As long as you stick to a single number to indicate a shop's trustworthiness, every negative comment has a relatively large impact.

People tend to attach more importance to deviations than to the norm. When someone is killed in traffic it is shocking, the millions who come home safely every day are not news.

What puts the matter into perspective is the trend . Fewer road deaths every year gives citizens more confidence, even if the risk remains. If the number of accidents suddenly doubles for a week, then you should be concerned.

Perhaps you could place an indication of that trend behind the feedback score (next to the thumb that now appears). An arrow down when the score falls (possibly in red for several negatives one after the other), an arrow up when the score rises again.

Wow comics pins. Well thought-out, well thought-out, innovative, creative and clearly expressed too. I can agree with that.

So then you get a down arrow if the last score is negative? Or must there have been several negative scores in succession? Instead of to the score, people only pay attention to the arrow.
Sounds good, but seems like a shift from the problem of calculating the score.

Yes, it indicates the current trend, so I think that is just as appropriate if the arrow points up again after the next positive feedback.

I would say black down if the last one was negative, black up if the penultimate was negative. Red down if the last two were negative, green up if the last two were positive. No arrow if the score remains the same (100%).
Or something.
Can a programmer still have fun.

what do we think of the bol system? 5 separate digits delivery speed communication etc

Bol and catawiki cannot be compared with ld: more than 2 parties involved in the sale. In other words flat and tasteless, unreliable.

arrows, asterisks, they are all disguised numbers so give me a number much clearer.

@GOIH101

qa site totaal verschillend bol en cw eens

de rest van je post begrijp ik niet helemaal 

mijn punt was dat je een cijfer krijgt bij bol voor 5 verschillende dingen in de deal en wat we daar van vinden ?
1 product info 
2 bezorging 
3 levertijd 
4 contact 
5 algemeen oordeel 


je kunt ook nog een toelichting op de order  geven trouwens

en dat met een cijfer van 1 tm 10 

@ GOIH101

qa site totally different bol and cw agree

I don't quite understand the rest of your post

my point was that you get a grade at bol for 5 different things in the deal and what do we think of that?
1 product info
2 delivery
3 delivery time
4 connection
5 overall judgement


You can also provide an explanation of the order by the way

and that with a number from 1 to 10

I find it flat tacky and unreliable.
But you want to know why?

Yes please

Ok, unreliable because there is noise in it by the third party and that involvement (errors, mistakes) will be borne by the seller.

In addition, the (bol) involves 2 visible assessments.

1 in asterisks (insanely popular at the moment) that are about the product.
After further searching, a number appears and that is about the seller. That figure is an average calculation. Based on all those points you already mentioned. Seems nice but the pain does not really come forward, you have to search for a long time. So it smoothes out the pain points.

What interests me as a buyer is the ordered item arrives, is it what I ordered, is there damage during shipping and how is that resolved.
In our traditional feedback system that is quickly visible. In it, the buyer explains briefly and succinctly what the essence of dissatisfaction was. Much more direct! As a buyer and as a seller, this helps you. In addition, the seller can also have his say.

And look, that sometimes gives peppery, fiery reflections in the feedbacks.
Bol (ahold) lacks that, hence tasteless.

I personally think that the extremely accessible lastdodo feedback system offers much more guidance for both buyers and sellers, whereby the collection element in that system is so appropriate to what Lastdodo is all about. seem but if you have to go for the asterisks.

@ GOIH101
Asterisks? I thought you were an arrow man ;-) ~

But I don't read anywhere about the lifetime negative feedback score at LD.

@ GOIH101 no stars please that is full of ahold I knew I taste an irritation about that piece

Obviously and not correct either, according to the manual the notation is:

Albert Heijn (Ahold, Ahold Delhaize, Bol, Etos, Gall & amp; Gall, Ping Doce)

And those asterisks ... I already suggested I don't have to look alike.

However, the asterisks find such wide application worldwide and have thus been promoted from icon to symbol in daily use.

Handy to quickly make a decision as a buyer when comparing different providers.

***** (433 votes)

Opposite

*** (12 votes)

In practice, this works to the advantage of the larger shops, it seems clear to me.

The only way to counter that (if you want to) seems to me to do arithmetic tricks that amount to covering up (you shouldn't want to).

Thank you very much for the adjustment. The shop in question really appreciates it.

The feedback system of the Dutch sites, which will soon be part of the Chinese stable (2dehands.be and marktplaats.nl), is not without danger. You have to pay close attention to what you are doing or no feedback can be given at all. 1 misclick and it's over (no possibility to award stars).
In addition, if one of the 2 parties refuses to award stars, you can never see a feedback trace. Offers perspectives for manipulation.
If applied properly, it does provide insight for both parties: speed, correctness and courtesy. All important, I think .

The Chinese system (eBay) is also not sanctifying. Both parties can give feedback, but one of the two parties can never give negative feedback ... seems to me discrimination.

The Belgian system (Delcampe) is solid and clear. Especially the follow-up with the colored icons (sent, paid, sent, received, feedback-etc.) has charm. It is, as it were, an pictogram timeline. However, the concept is quite overwhelming and over-structured, which is a disadvantage. I think .

The feedback concept on LD is strange, but in my opinion valid. Sober, okay, but it doesn't miss the mark. At least from a buyer's point of view (whether or not you buy in that particular shop). Only, a salesperson has less insight in advance compared to a new customer. The feedback given from that customer may reveal something, but says nothing about his speed (and less about his politeness and correctness).

Every system does its job, and they all have advantages and disadvantages. I would not change the concept itself ( but that is only my opinion ).

My opinion remains that a 'blemish' (incurred as a result of a miscommunication, a mistake or an exceptional fact such as hospitalization), should not be carried along forever. People are capable of making mistakes. Certain things just happen. But people must also be given the opportunity to transcend those errors (consciously or unconsciously) or events. Then, for example, a seller does not have to explain for many years in succession that he / she is not 100% (as a seller that is) due to an urgent hospitalization 7 years ago.

Yes or that during a heat wave - and a renovation at the seller - a buyer becomes furious that the seller "LIED" about the day of shipment (= he was a day off) and therefore gives negative feedback, and that he shortly afterwards orders something from the same lying animal and if he does not feel like selling something to that angry buyer - afraid of more unjustified negative feedback - that the buyer will give negative feedback again. Yes, that was you Puurveen.

Wiki

You can also partly anticipate yourself. A small mention for who visits your store as an invitation to communicate more and cry less (lol). Of course you should never put it so crudely. I found a good example at a top shop:

You couldn't put it more aptly: ' it remains a hobby after all '.

Or, if the circumstances are not ideal to serve customers smoothly, you can still take temporary 'leave' as a seller. You can even leave a message (eg 'temporarily closed due to circumstances'):

You won't do anything wrong with that. It will be open again in no time if the circumstances permit it again. Because current orders were made by someone who could not have known that the store would be temporarily closed.
When moving, it is never a good idea to leave the store open. Then you do not know where to find what for a long time, and your time is absorbed in other things. A customer who can place an order in your shop does not know this. Actually, that's not his / her problem either.

Thanks for your tips Raoul!

Still frustrated? too bad

Dit is visueel wat ik bedoelde.  Pictogrammen die kunnen opkleuren (één keer op klikken).  Een aantal die enkel de koper kan aanklikken (blauwe kolomtitels), een aantal die enkel de verkoper kan aanklikken (groene kolomtitels).

Langs de kant koper ('Kopertje') zie je dit:

Kopertje is heel actief, maar er klopt iets niet.  Iemand heeft 'm een Pinokio aangemeten.  Tijd om dit eerst te onderzoeken en dan pas verder op aankoop-zoektocht te gaan.
Je hebt betaald, en dat ook aangeduid (2de pictogram aangeklikt waardoor het opkleurt).  Misschien heb je een verkeerd rekeningnummer gebruikt?  De twee aankopen in dezelfde shop liggen dicht op elkaar.  De verkoper zal het eerste niet opsturen (combineren drukt de verzendkosten) omdat de tweede betaling achterwege blijft.  Het geld verschijnt niet op zijn rekening.  Eerst oplossen!
Bij shop Avondrood gaf je aan dat je alles ontvangen hebt, maar nog geen feedback gaf.  Tijd om te evalueren!  Geen nieuwe bestellingen plaatsen, je bent niet 'mee'.

Langs de kant verkoper ('Verkoopsatelier') zie je dit:

Je bent goed mee met je winkelverkopen en er is pas een nieuwe bestelling binnengekomen (alles grijs).  Prima.  Kopertje gaf aan 'betaald' te hebben.  De eerste bestelling ok.  De blauwe kijkers van de emo zien er gelukkig uit.  De 2de bestelling echter daar zie je de centen niet van.  Berichten worden steevast beantwoord: 'ik heb betaald'.  Neen, het komt niet op je rekening.  Dan maar een Pinokio toekennen.  Dit moet eerst uitgeklaard worden.
Het heeft ondertussen al wat tijd gekost, maar de toegespeelde Pinokio zorgt dat er geen feed-back kan gegeven worden (grijs).  Tot het opgelost is.  Opgelost? De rode Pino aanklikken (dan wordt die weer grijs) en is het proces weer lopende.

De rest kun je perfect zelf interpreteren.

Achterliggend wordt een 'top' van de toegekende Pinokio's bijgehouden (bv van al wie > 3 pinokio's aan zijn been heeft).  Die moeten uitgeklaard worden.  Je moet zelf de discipline hebben probleemgevallen niet te laten rondslingeren wil je niet in de 'Hall of Verdoemenis' belanden.  Vanaf 5 pinokio's kun je bv. (tijdelijk) niet meer bestellen in de shops.
Is de Pinokio onterecht?  Je kan er zélf iets aan doen.
Wel terecht?  Anderen zullen die wetenschap kunnen waarderen.
Elke partij ziet altijd duidelijk hoe het staat met de transacties.  Visuele Work-flow dus.
En de stok achter de deur kun je zelf beïnvloeden, door je gedrag.  Kijk toch maar even na op welk rekeningnummer je betaalde, en laat de verkoper niet in de s##t zitten.

Maar het mes snijdt aan twee kanten: ook een 'top' van de 'strenge verkopers' (die de meeste pinokio's hebben open staan).  Bij zo iemand moet je tijdelijk niet bestellen: die heeft al zijn tijd nodig om de moeilijke dossiers in orde te krijgen.  Om ergens het pinokijooten binnen de perken te houden.

Het systeem zou een groot deel zelfsturend zijn.  De top van de top, die komt automatisch in beeld.
Of een bepaalde limiet waarbij kopers/verkopers op auto-lock worden geplaatst ...  

Het is maar een idee, maar lijkt me leuk.

This is visually what I meant. Icons that can color (click once). A number that only the buyer can click on (blue column titles), a number that only the seller can click on (green column titles).

Along the copper side ('Copper') you see this:

Kopertje is very active, but something is not right. Someone made him a Pinocchio. Time to investigate this first and only then continue on the purchase search.
You have paid, and also indicated that (2nd icon clicked so that it lights up). Maybe you used the wrong account number? The two purchases in the same shop are close together. The seller will not send the first (combining reduces the shipping costs) because the second payment has not been made. The money does not appear in his account. Solve first!
At shop Avondrood you indicated that you received everything, but did not provide any feedback yet. Time to evaluate! Do not place new orders, you are not 'with us'.

On the seller's side ('Verkoopsatelier') you see this:

You are doing well with your store sales and a new order has just arrived (all gray). Fine. The buyer indicated that he had 'paid'. The first order ok. The emo's blue binoculars look happy. The 2nd order, however, you do not see the cents. Messages are invariably answered: 'I paid'. No, it will not be charged to you. Then award a Pinocchio. This needs to be clarified first.
It has already taken some time, but the assigned Pinokio ensures that no feedback can be given (grey). Until it's resolved. Dissolved? Click on the red Pino (it turns gray again) and the process is running again.

You can interpret the rest yourself.

In the background, a 'top' of the assigned Pinokios is kept (eg of all those who have > 3 Pinokios on their leg). They need to be clarified. You must have the discipline yourself not to leave problem cases lying around if you do not want to end up in the 'Hall of Damnation'. From 5 pinokios, for example, you can no longer order (temporarily) in the shops.
Is the Pinocchio wrong? You can do something about it yourself.
Rightly so? Others will appreciate that knowledge.
Each party always clearly sees the status of the transactions. Visual Workflow.
And you can influence the stick behind the door yourself, through your behavior. Just check which account number you paid on, and don't leave the seller in the s##t.

But the knife cuts both ways: also a 'top' of the 'strict sellers' (who have most pinokios open). You should temporarily not order from such a person: he needs all his time to get the difficult files in order. To keep pinokijooting within limits somewhere.

The system would be largely self-managing. The top of the top, which automatically comes into view.
Or a certain limit where buyers/sellers are placed on auto-lock...

It's just an idea, but I like it.