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July 17, 2022 16:22
With regard to deleting inactive accounts: I know plenty of examples of users who have been inactive for a few years (for all kinds of reasons, from illness to moving abroad) and then came back to the site. You can't just delete someone's collection, etc., in which a lot of work may have been put into it.
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July 17, 2022 16:54
If an LL enthusiast is willing to pay ten times as much for such a sugar bag than a sugar bag collector, then the sugar bag collector's collection will simply remain incomplete. You'd have to be crazy to sell it to him.

And now you are here, what is the list price? How many LL enthusiasts buy a sugar candy compared to a sugar bag collector? Of course you say the highest price, but then you get into trouble with the sugar bag collectors again. And so you keep discussing. This works in most sections of course.

ps, they can remove all catalog values from me.
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July 17, 2022 17:05
Rene "If you keep yelling loudly that the information is incorrect and then start demanding things from other users,"
And where did I demand something from other users? I'm talking about the underlying system.
Like  fazerco's comment that for his part the catalog values may disappear.

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Rene
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July 17, 2022 17:15
I'm talking about the underlying system.
What do you demand from the underlying system? That we remove the catalog values? There are a lot of users who think they are important. For example, a lot of price suggestions are made for the catalog values.
Every user has specific wishes, but a personal wish does not immediately mean that we have to get started. Otherwise we would keep changing a lot of things back and forth.
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  • July 17, 2022 17:26
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July 17, 2022 17:26
In the past, catalogs (for example, inventory lists with descriptions of the possessions of museums or wealthy private collectors) did not have price indications or valuations.
That only came later with so-called sales catalogs of trading houses or sellers with fixed prices.
Belief in invariably unchangeable prices for goods and services is untenable in practice.
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  • July 17, 2022 17:49
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July 17, 2022 17:49
Rene  Removing catalog values is one suggestion. Others have suggested removing inactive accounts. Neither proposal is mine, but I think they are both worth considering. The exact modalities are another matter.
You can always point out to others that you don't like their proposals.
I see them as suggestions to consider.

COINSANDCOMICS  That's right: those prices are constantly changing due to decreasing interest , market saturation or inflation. I've also seen quite a few moves in auction catalogs, from brick smashing to the sky is the limit to yo-yo moves. But auction catalogs ultimately yield a realistically paid selling price.
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July 17, 2022 18:12
Removing catalog values is one suggestion. Others have suggested removing inactive accounts. Neither proposal is mine, but I think they are both worth considering.

PeterMotte 
Rene has already replied to both proposals. It's not going to happen. Neither proposal is yours, but you are suggesting that there is something wrong with the 'underlying system'. I can imagine that René is not amused. Neither am I.

Perhaps a good time to end the discussion, because it is getting very vague now. I don't quite understand what you want now.

Edit:  Other than bickering.
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July 17, 2022 19:51
PeterMotte that was not a proposal, because I already know that they are not going away.

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July 17, 2022 19:52
vertigo I'm also not very amused by the fact that I'm being accused of doing nothing when my current account has only been active for a month, and I was doing things with my previous account. So let's not be too quick to claim that there's someone out there bickering about this.
You might as well say the same about the people who made the proposals I think are worth considering.
I think it is a bit strong that I am said to only come and squabble if I support someone else's proposal.
And since when is René here the absolutist monarch who has the last word on everything ? I thought someone said this is open source? Then there is no last word.

So let's be serious for a moment: there is a problem. If the problem is systematic, there is a problem with the underlying system.
That underlying system is the software.
I think the software can indeed be used to intervene in some cases, such as with inactive accounts.
The only question is: how long does an account have to be inactive for it to be closed?
I thought to five years.
If you come back after five years, you should register again.
There are websites where it works like this, and where the term is even shorter than five years, even just two years.

So, that was me.
I had given a cross, but if you don't want to kick in your own direction to the goal, I'll kick in my direction to the goal.
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July 17, 2022 20:08
And since when is René here the absolutist monarch who has the last word on everything? I thought someone said this is open source? Then there is no last word.

eh... maybe since the beginning of Catawiki/Lastdodo which he founded and still finances ???
But knowing Rene he always gets good advice from experts so that absolutism is not that bad :)
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July 17, 2022 20:44
This topic is / was about Price suggestions. Again, over time, it all goes in all directions. Please stick to the topic, otherwise we can close it better.

Every rating system has its advantages and disadvantages.
As we like to learn from good examples: Are there websites / catalogs with a better rating system than from LastDodo?
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July 17, 2022 21:52
Those price suggestions might also be captured by some automated system.

There are two valuable sources for price suggestions: the normal retail price of a new product (recommended retail price in the case of books/comics), and auction proceeds.
But I don't think anything like that can be automated, except maybe some retail prices.
As for auction proceeds, I've seen them go very high on comics too, while the same item at that price - and even at a much lower price - offering, often doesn't bring any customers (which makes me suspicious of who paid those high prices).

Of course the inactive accounts remain. A time limit such as five years automatically closes accounts of the deceased without having to deal with them all separately. That's definitely worth considering.

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July 17, 2022 23:07
 my previous account

I do have some questions about that...
What was the name of that account and why don't you use it anymore?
Did you also leave a search list with that previous account?

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July 18, 2022 00:28
I don't say that name, because I just wanted to start over from scratch. I started to find it messy.
I don't think I've ever made a to-do list. If I remember correctly, I first deleted everything, in terms of shop and collection, and only then deleted the account.
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July 18, 2022 07:43
Collectioneur

Whether there is a better catalog in terms of valuations, I suppose, depends on the collecting area. Stamps are something different than comic books. I have no idea whether online catalogs are available for stamps, coins, etc. that are better or more current.

To stay on topic. I've been going through my comic collection by catalog value high to low. Because besides many weeklies I still have about 1500 albums "old guard", the high ratings of relatively recent comic books (in my collection) are incidents. One more example, I think rightly appreciated because this part of the series has not been offered in (almost) new condition for years (or is ordered immediately when offered) #36651

The rating system is fine, provided users take it seriously for input and/or price suggestions. However, after 3 years? or so to refresh value of all comic books to market value is a utopia. You can't leave that to a system either, unless the Whizz Kids can link 1 to items where there are more than 5 to 10 for sale. With then 1 push of a button to adjust. I have absolutely no idea about this, so excuse me.

My opinion is that most of the relatively recent comic books from 1980 or so are offered well below the cat value. Since there are many suppliers of those albums, a buyer no longer has to look at a cat value, the offer/market value is the starting point.

The antiquarian, I am referring to Lombard, Tintin's 40s to 60s, that is difficult, near mints sometimes still offer good prices at auctions. As far as what I still have, the catalog values are up to the high side. But not so relevant for the shops, given the maximum sales value of 75 euros, but then for the collector who would see a catalog value as truth and buy elsewhere.

Example: #20357, like many Lombards is almost new ( stock condition disregarded) the value was no longer met.
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July 18, 2022 08:42
PeterMotte
I don't get it...if you erased everything first...what else could be messy?
But it proves my point: everyone and everyone create accounts around their heads and leave the 'old' account behind (with or without the lists included). Another new user :)

Collectioneur
The system itself, for a wiki, runs well, but the extremes must come into the picture.

I think it's ok that everyone, in the absence of a catalog value, can add that data. Indeed: better an indication than nothing. A start.

Once filled in that another user can no longer change it himself is also ok. Then there is the 'suggest catalog value' process. Otherwise, the risk of a yes-no game becomes too great. And then you get real hot spots of discussion.
To what extent this is looked at in each section ... At least not with Stamps, I have the impression (I once passed one such and it seemed to me a 'black hole' in the stamp section).

However, an administrator can always adjust the catalog values (per condition). And I think that happens a lot. In this way, a column shifts a little more to current events.
Of course, you don't just run through a section with 800,000 items. Many items are saddled with their initial catalog value.

[1] However, what can be provided is an (online real time) check between real sales prices and the catalog values. So that situations from my example are no longer possible.

If a catalog value is adjusted for a condition, and compared to the average sales price it turns out to be too far from the normal range: no adjustment, but a signal to the manager (that is, you). There's something wrong there. That needs to be looked at.
Of course, anyone who notices such a thing is supposed to signal… but how many such signals do you get? Most quickly close the jar if it smells too much.

[2] Also a check (behind the scenes) that maps out which items are offered in a range far beyond the acceptable. Offered for 1 euro while the LD Catalog value is 10,000 euros ... you really need to look at that asap.
A batch that carries out this check, possibly by setting the 'Manager' itself how wide the margin may be. Initially maybe deviating between 0.01% and 1000%. Once that nest has been cleared, it will already be a different view (if those hilarious situations are eliminated). Then it may be possible to look at deviations in the range 0.1% to 500%.
Preferably per category , then the signals can be (partly) outsourced by the Manager to super and general managers . In addition, one section is not the other. For stamps, offering 1% of the catalog value is realistic. I understand that is not the case with coins.

It is about the credibility of LD, which is at stake, especially because of the catalog value.
I can't blame the 'attackers', because now we actually do ... (not much / nothing -> fill in yourself). We only have the umbrella 'open systems' (wiki) ... Personally, I have an innate dislike for umbrellas.
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Rene
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July 18, 2022 09:11
Example: #20357, like many Lombards is almost new (stock is not taken into account) the value is no longer met.

Harry56 , Have you looked at the near mint conditions? You will not find this book in that easily. There is almost always some light snow on the cover etc.

Raoul62 , A signaling system is indeed a good idea. We start with a query on the largest differences between catalog value and the revenue block. If there are large differences, something may have gone wrong with one of the two.
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July 18, 2022 09:15
Rene 
"Have you looked at the conditions of near mint condition? You will not find this book easily. There is almost always some light snow on the cover, etc."

Yes, see your snow on the photos of the catalog copy ? Or is it just good in your eyes?

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Rene
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July 18, 2022 09:30
Yeah, do you see snow in the photos of the catalog copy? Or is it just good in your eyes?

Ah, you added those photos I see now Harry56 
Very good!
I think you can discuss whether this is near mint condition. There are some minor things with the corners and edges as you can see. It does look very nice.

But my point is not that they do not exist in this condition, but more that they are rarely offered as (almost) new. This which raised 370 euros including auction costs is very nice but still has a price on the back.
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July 18, 2022 09:52
Rene 

My copy is slightly nicer in terms of front cover, I see some smudges on the sold copy . Indeed, we can always talk about very good, almost new condition, etc. Apparently I was lucky years ago at the Catawiki auction in terms of price... I have 1 copy less beautiful but still beautiful, but put 2 x on the marketplace ( retail price was once 325 euros, but I didn't pay that much for it either)) but no one was warm to that.
 
It may well be that the prices of antiquarian have picked up again. Collecting also means that a collector finds an album acceptably beautiful. The 1 is satisfied with very nice, the other thinks reasonably sufficient, that may have to do with how deep someone's wallet is. Corentins (one of my favorites) well decades ago you came across good + parts that just had a price tag of 1000 guilders.

Anyhow thanks for your many comments and additions.


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Rene
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July 18, 2022 09:59
Indeed we can always chat about very good, near mint condition, etc.

You can indeed endlessly discuss that :-)

I have 1 copy less beautiful but still beautiful, but put it on the marketplace twice

In "just" good or reasonable condition, they are often offered and they have certainly decreased in value over the past 10 years. And well, marketplace... :-)



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July 18, 2022 10:44
Harry56 "Since there are many sellers of those albums, a buyer no longer has to look at a cat value, the offer/market value is the starting point."

-> The catalog value should be the market value, right? While by definition you seem to make a distinction between them.

You are of course absolutely right that it is impossible to adjust prices for inflation, for example. That is also why my prices for sales are always without shipping costs.
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July 18, 2022 10:48
Raoul62
" If a catalog value is adjusted for a condition, and it turns out to be too far from the normal range compared to the average sales price: do not adjust, but a signal to the manager (you). There is something wrong with that. That should be looked at.
Of course, anyone who notices such a thing is supposed to signal… but how many such signals do you get? Most quickly close the jar if it smells too much. "

-> something like this should be possible automatically, right?
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July 18, 2022 11:17
 Most of them quickly close the jar if it smells too much.

Don't suggest something that isn't true.
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July 18, 2022 11:27
Collectioneur 
that was my writing :)
It is a real feeling for many. Threshold fear, not knowing how to signal, not daring to enter the forum, not wanting to get involved in 'something', remaining distant, not being sufficiently motivated, ...

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