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February 21, 2022 20:34
The correct name of the music band is  
Arbeid Adelt!
With exclamation mark at the end.
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February 23, 2022 17:21
Initially this name was written without an exclamation mark!

Omitting the exclamation mark therefore seems justifiable.
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February 23, 2022 18:25
I'm glad I asked first then, because I believe that it is indeed with ! must be. 'I'll just keep it off.

Arbeid Adelt!, Belgian band, performed Dutch-language absurd electronic music, was founded in 1981 by Marcel Vanthilt, among others.

In in the early years there may have been a printing error on the covers of a single. Printers thought they were smart and left the ! away. That happens when you as a group do not yet have a name and fame. But that ! should be there in my opinion. The group was founded under that name.

If the first appearance of a band's name is kept (wrong or not), should I replace TC Matic with Tjens Couter everywhere? Because that's what the band was called initially...

Tjens Couter was the first Belgian group to perform in Avro's Toppop. That was quite something for me. Being obliged to act silly with a Tyrolean Dancer (Arno: "There was also such a Tyrolean bitch dancing next to me"). When they were asked again a little later, they refused (Arno: "Because we are not canary birds, God damn it!").
Arbeid Adelt! hadn't been born yet, they would have fitted perfectly in that circus.


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February 23, 2022 21:31
Raoul62
They once released a record called 'Arbeid Adelt?' † Surely a misprint?
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February 23, 2022 21:58
vertigo 
No, the real name under which the group was founded by Marcel Vanthilt is Arbeid Adelt!. Really, that's not a misprint. My preference is the real name.

For Creedence Clearwater Revival, no CCR is used on LD either. Everyone who knows the group uses CCR, but the real name is Creedence Clearwater Revival.

Like the 'C.C.C. INC.' is, and not 'C.C.C. Inc' (according to LD).

On LD I also see 'Belle Perez' and 'Perez, Belle'. One has 8 items, the other has 9 (other) items. Real name is María Isabel Pérez Cerezo.
When is a stage name 'reversed' and when not on LD?
Is it 'Golden Earring', or 'Earring, Golden'?

When are dotted and when not? "V.I.P." eg is in my opinion 'VIP'. Without the dots.


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February 23, 2022 22:16

When is an artist name 'flipped' and when not on LD?
Is it 'Golden Earring', or 'Earring, Golden'?

That is stated in the Handbook Records and CDs.



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February 23, 2022 22:36
Then 'Perez, Belle' (I see they are merged now: top) would be based on 4.5. from that manual should appear in the list of Artists/Bands as follows:

Pérez Cerezo, María Isabel (Belle Perez)
Belle Perez (Pérez Cerezo, María Isabel)

Like

Jones, David (David Bowie)
David Bowie (Jones, David)

Correct or not?
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February 23, 2022 22:52
Raoul62
Your examples will show the Artists/Bands alone,
Pérez Cerezo, María Isabel (Belle Perez)
Jones, David (David Bowie)
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February 23, 2022 23:01


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February 23, 2022 23:08
Lyonesse And why would that be so? Have you already taken a look?
If you type some text yourself, it will of course not work well. If you ask an administrator for an alias, the search function should work both ways.
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February 23, 2022 23:13
The omission of the exclamation point therefore seems justifiable.

For reference: in the Comics section the last used name of a Series/hero is always used as main name, with the older name/names as alias.
The most famous example (and coincidentally also Belgian) is Kiekeboes, The (Kiekeboe).

If Arco were still there, he would undoubtedly also want to implement this in the Music section.
(Though I suspect it's an even greater rarity in this category than comics.)

Edit: I just remembered that it also applies to Golden Earring. The fact that the band once started as "The Golden Earrings" does not mean that that name is leading.
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February 23, 2022 23:38
Jummeke
I'm not sure what you mean.
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February 24, 2022 07:09
Lyonesse 
Raoul asks for the name in both directions.
Pérez Cerezo, María Isabel (Belle Perez)
Belle Perez (Pérez Cerezo, María Isabel)

Like

Jones, David (David Bowie)
David Bowie ( Jones, David)
You answer that this is not the case and only in one direction.
Your examples show the Artists/Bands alone,
Pérez Cerezo, María Isabel (Belle Perez)
Jones, David (David Bowie)
My answer : If you as a user do that 1 time, as an administrator correctly 2 times.
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February 24, 2022 08:03
 Just because that band started out as "The Golden Earrings" doesn't mean that that name is leading.

I didn't mean to say that the original name is leading, just that the name without an exclamation mark also occurs.

My answer: If you as a user do that 1 time, as an administrator correctly 2 times.

Nicely made up, but not true. Belle Perez is listed in the catalog as 'Perez, Belle'. So that's only once.

If Raoul were to limit himself to the essentials, he would have written:
'I believe that Belle Perez should be like 'Perez Cerezo, Maria Isabel' and not as 'Perez, Belle'.

Not sure if that is the case. Belle Perez seems like a form of her real name.
At Mick Jagger, for example, we use 'Jagger, Mick' and not 'Jagger, Michael Philip'.
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February 24, 2022 09:27
Nicely made up, but not true. Belle Perez is listed in the catalog as 'Perez, Belle'. So that's only once.
Everywhere in LD we work with aliases so that they are also reversed. Correction: In 71 sections of LD, except for Platen. It's your section, so I won't bother with it anymore.
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February 24, 2022 10:40

It's your section

Jummeke 
I don't own any rubrics, only admin. LastDodo is by and for everyone.


I don't bother with it anymore.

Jummeke 
Maybe not unwise, because what you say is again not true. Also with records/CDs the artists with an alias are listed twice. See David Bowie/Davy Jones example above.


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February 24, 2022 11:17
vertigo
Dear Rob, with music the name of this example Jones, David (David Bowie) as I have now read it here is set in one direction.
When searching in the Catalog you will find them that way too whether you're looking for David Jones or David Bowie, it's ok So.
But now it comes, in my collection it is wrong so as Jones, David (David Bowie)
So I think that is wrong, yes they bought records from David Bowie, and not from David Jones .
My question, what happens to the name in my collection if an administrator first enters Jones, David (David Bowie) and then Bowie, David (David Jones) in the background
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February 24, 2022 12:50
vertigo
1. the further discussion leading to the truth and the white light (I hope).
Belle Perez seems to be a form of her real name.
I'm not completely convinced yet.
The manual under point 4.5. Aliases are very clear. The real name of an artist is entered. If an artist uses an alias, it can be added by the administrator, so that the items are visible when searching on an alias.
It is perfectly correct, according to the manual for eg.
  • Axelle Red (Demal, Fabienne)
  • Demal, Fabienne (Axelle Red)
and also for
  • Jones, David (David Bowie)
  • David Bowie (Jones, David)
But not for Belle Perez?
In David Bowie I also see part of the real name...  Even literally (David)
With Belle Perez, that part is not even literal. An 'e' is not the same letter as an 'é'.
It was probably also the reason that the singer was in it twice, once with 8, and once with 9 other items. It's good that they're all together now. But it still conflicts with what the handbook proclaims.

2. how a other type of user on LD would eventually respond
will limit itself to the essentials
The correct name as it is printed on the music carrier, may not be used?
'The first name counts' (at least the first name on LD) but not for 'TC Matic' where the first name was 'Tjens Couter' (certainly: no misprint)?

On the next CD I see that the artist name used clashes with what is written in the manual .
Do I have to explain myself where it is in the manual, with a similar example (which is included literally as an example in the manual).
And then it suddenly becomes secondary.

You know what? The following additions I throw at it with my clack. Then you can set yourself straight. The handbook does not need to be read because it cannot be followed or explained. All secondary.

3. But luckily I am not the '2' type.  I like clear agreements that can be applied correctly, and qualitative (correct) data.< br>
But I won't ask any more questions on the Music forum, and just do what I think. Will always be wrong anyway, before and after the change. Can we spare ourselves the discussion.

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February 24, 2022 13:09
The last self-released CD #3724709 was under the name "Arbeid Adelt!".
I don't think it's wrong to keep that name. In a background page it can be explained that that band has released music under different name variations.
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February 24, 2022 13:29
My question, what happens to the name in my collection if an administrator first enters Jones, David (David Bowie) and then Bowie, David (David Jones) in the background

That's not how it works. You have a primary name, which according to the regulations must be the birth name of a person. In addition, you have a secondary name or names (possibly pseudonyms), which must be entered in a separate field (Alias). The latter can only be done by administrators, behind the scenes.

You could take "Bowie, David" as primary name and "Jones, David" as secondary name (alias), but then you only see David Bowie the albums he made under that name.
In his case that's all, I suspect, but if you did the same at Prince Rogers Nelson, then those items would come under three different pseudonyms (Prince, Tafkap and Christopher).

A choice was made at the beginning of the catalog for this setup. It's not ideal, but the reverse would require a drastic and time-consuming operation, reworking all names in the database to "double entry".
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February 24, 2022 13:38
Raoul62
Why do you write the names twice here every time, we are at Music.
You write,
Axelle Red (Demal, Fabienne)
Demal, Fabienne (Axelle Red)
The second is right, that's how it is done with Music, the first is not used at all with Music, is also wrong, by the way, with music it would be Red, Axelle (Fabienne Demal)
With David Bowie the same the first one is right, the second one wrong, if you want to do it this way it has to be Bowie, David (David Jones).
And as for you Belle Perez, it will be Perez, Maribel (Belle Perez) or for Maribel maybe Maria but not the middle name Isabelle.
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February 24, 2022 13:44
Strongly agree with  Boekenmagazijn, this is the agreed way to enter personal names.

An underlying problem does not solve this, however. If you want to know in Prince's example which records he has made under the name "Tafkap", that doesn't work.
A possible solution I see is to do something with a field "Artist name". But perhaps smarter solutions can be devised.
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February 24, 2022 13:45
Boekenmagazijn
I've only wondered what happens in my Collection if you let the name run in the background.
And I know that an administrator can do that alone, that's not the point here, just wondering if this has ever been tested.
All I care about is that the names in my collection look good.
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February 24, 2022 13:58
Lyonesse I see that my explanation does not come across.
What you want is not possible at the moment, because   in your collection is only selected by primary name.
It may be possible to reprogram everything so that you also You can sort alias, but you have to submit that to René (and I don't think that wish gets much priority, although I am also a big proponent of it).

As for Axelle Red: it is indeed only below one name in the database. But if you look in the alphabetical list of Artists/bands, you will see that it is shown twice, once (under D) with the actual name in front, and once (under A) with the artist name in front. Both links point to exactly the same page.

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February 24, 2022 16:27
There is also such a thing as name variant. And that has everything to do with searching. Example Golden Earring. Once started as The Golden Earrings, then Golden Earrings and now only Golden Earring. The last name is used so in the catalog they are listed as

Golden Earring with the alias "Golden Earrings" and as name variants "The Golden Earrings", "The Golden Ear-ring" and "Golden Earrings "

The name variants do not appear when mentioning the name. So if you go to the items of the Golden Earrings, above that it says Golden Earring (Golden Earrings)

And now to Belle Perez.... She is in the artist list only as "Perez, Belle", without alias or name variant. So if you go looking for her and then you go to her items, Belle Perez is at the top with nothing behind it. In short, with her the original name has not yet been added.

Another remark: names of groups are always written as usual: so Gerry & The Pacemakers of Pearl Jam. For solo artists, we use the Christian name (last name, first name) "Reed, Lou". The aliases just like with groups: "Verbrugge, Willy (Willeke Alberti)"
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