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May 26, 2021 22:08
No, not too much time. For example, I am not going to globally change a field from 'not specified' to 'not filled in' (as I have noticed such global operations here and there). But an effort that makes sense (contributing to quality) is not too much for me.
The problem is that 'examples' are followed (as it is now interpreted as being correct). I am afraid there will be a lot more with round brackets.
The manual, if it is read at all, is only read by an average user once. What changes later ...
The forum is not read enough (but followed very closely by some :)) to pass it off as gospel.
And experienced users have the wrong vibe in their fingers. It used to be, but now suddenly no longer.
With such a turnaround (from round to square brackets in a database with several million items already present) I would hope that the wrong signals (as they are now present) term disappear.
So no, I am not looking for occupational therapy, because I am already too busy :) :) :)
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May 26, 2021 22:24
The manual, if read at all, only goes through an average user once. What changes later ...

By the way, the import instruction had already been adjusted to this.
This should certainly not become occupational therapy, but wrong habits must be unlearned :)
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May 26, 2021 22:39
A script might do more harm than good. I see a lot of names with double parentheses, 2 brackets in a row, or just an additional name between brackets (after date from-to).

Francis I of Austria (Franco II of the Holy Roman Empire (1768-1835))
Francis II Rákóczi (1676-1735) (Rákóczi Ferenc)
Fontaine, Bernard de (Bernard de Clairvaux)
Francis II Rákóczi (1676-1735) (Rákóczi Ferenc)
Fontaine, Edmond de la (1823-1891) (Dicks)
Francis II of the Holy Roman Empire (1768-1835) (Franco I of Austria)
Are the names in the extra brackets actually the aliases or as described the names added by regular users?

There are hundreds of them...

A number of others seem to me to be purely double, triple or even more double (sometimes with a small variation on the year of birth / death).




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May 26, 2021 23:07
Are the names in the extra brackets effectively the aliases or, as described, the names added by regular users?
If it is an actual alias, that name will also be listed alphabetically.

Bernard de Clairvaux does not seem to be, and moreover it is a duplication of Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153) .
Also French II Rákóczi (1676-1735) (Rákóczi Ferenc) was not entered correctly.
They are now difficult to identify.

Running a find and replace script has no effect on aliases entered correctly - in a separate field. However, all incorrect entries will also have square brackets around the "alias", making them very recognizable.


Idea for an ambitious programmer:
It would be very useful if names (and not just personal names , but actually all kinds of data) were identifiable as verified (and "frozen") by an administrator. With a check mark or something. Maybe not in the regular catalog (then it will be too much fun), but as an extra option for administrators.
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May 27, 2021 08:18
With Bernard de Clairvaux this does not seem to be the case, and moreover it is a duplication of Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153) .
Also Frans II Rákóczi (1676- 1735) (Rákóczi Ferenc) was not entered correctly.
They are now difficult to identify.

Exactly the reason for my request not to use normal (parentheses) with new names from yesterday.
Repetition is the strength of the advertisement: Please do not replace the current () with the [] as user busy, because then we will get a lot more duplicates.

Er A script has been requested to automatically execute this in due course.
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May 27, 2021 19:45
A script has been requested to automatically execute this in due course.

A script works drastically, so names will also be changed that have a "(" or ")" in the name itself. These are rarities, but they could be incorrect adaptations to square brackets.
If you see such rare names (all categories), please let me know. Then we can take this into account or (if there are few) manually adjust it later.
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May 27, 2021 22:14
Brackets in names, I can't imagine anything about that. Do you have an example?

By the way, what is the prescription for living, should there be a dash after the date of birth? (Memento mori.) Otherwise they might also be able to be removed with a script right away.

(And I don't have an answer to my original question yet.
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May 28, 2021 07:16
Brackets in names, I can't imagine that. Do you have an example?

I don't have an example myself, but I can imagine something that a pop band could have a "(" in a name.

Several questions were asked, to which question do you expect an answer ?
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May 28, 2021 15:02
Collectioneur
In any case, with music - probably not the entire list, but see no others so quickly -:

(Hed) pe
(International) Noise Conspiracy, The
(Impatient) Youth
(In Spite of Flaming Creatures)
647 (F)
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May 28, 2021 15:36
1) Next to the input field “Person themes” of the Dutch site it reads:

“… Notation examples: Monet, Claude [1840-1926] or Beethoven, Ludwig van [1770 - 1827]”

It's the right use of brackets but why is the second example different (hyphen minus between two blanks)?

It just causes confusion for the collector looking at the instructions when putting in a new item or changing one (and certainly before looking into the manual…)

2) The input field “Designer / Engraver” should have a similar text with examples in order to avoid all misunderstanding concerning the use of square brackets.

3) There are for now deviating texts next to the input field “Person themes” on the sites in another language, for instance examples with round brackets (French site) or without any examples (English and German site).

All collectors are entitled to receive exactly the same instructions, so that we don't have to complain any longer about doubles or bad input.

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May 28, 2021 16:19
kdamme
I don't quite understand.
Then what happens to those names that you have indicated, aren't they only between brackets?
If something changes with those names, what happens with eg with Simons, Hein (Heintje) and those other thousands of names that are in brackets for music alone?
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May 28, 2021 16:32
Lyonesse
Those are aliases. These are automatically placed between brackets by the system. That's why you can't use parentheses yourself.
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May 28, 2021 16:56
Lyonesse
Actually, as a user you may never enter a second name, not () or not []. You can ask an administrator for aliases (see previous post).
Probably, such cases will also appear during this cleanup.
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May 28, 2021 17:42
user-1713548
OK now I get it, I just wrote a message to Frans that he can make some changes at the Artists.
Just a question in between, I'm at e.g. the Composers and Lyricists regularly encountered names where the Pseudonym was only in brackets, so not as it should, as the administrators do.
What happens to those names, are they changed manually, or have they disappeared? ?
Regards John.
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May 28, 2021 18:03
Lyonesse
What happens to those names, are they changed manually, or have they disappeared?

When a script starts running, only the brackets () are replaced by square brackets [].
The names remain first, even the incorrect names written by users in brackets. These have to be corrected manually later by the administrators.

We keep repeating:
Never write an alias / pseudonym after the original name as a user. An alias / pseudonym can only be added by an administrator.
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May 28, 2021 18:12
Loriot
Why do you write in the English language on the Dutch forum? As a result, there is no possibility for Dutch-speaking users to have your text translated automatically.
If you want to respond in the English language, you must do so on the international English-language forum. Then your message can be translated into the Dutch language.
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May 28, 2021 19:24
then only the brackets () are replaced by square brackets []
As a result, the well-intended, but wrong, additions are automatically visible by users. After the script has run you will see it immediately (a name in square brackets.
Seems like a good plan. But after that someone with enough feathers (an administrator :)) will still have work on it. A lot of work.

If I have it right, then for example the example applied "Simons, Hein (Heintje)":
- will still be visible when 'Heintje' is an alias for 'Simons, Hein', and so has been added by an administrator;
- change to "Simons, Hein [Heintje]" if a user has wrongly wanted to add the alias.

A list for the screwed up of service would be useful I think: the lines (names) containing square brackets not followed by a digit (they don't start with "[n", where n = digit). Not 100% conclusive, but can be used as an intensive work list.


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May 28, 2021 19:31
1) Next to the input field “Person themes” of the Dutch site it reads:


“…Notatievoorbeelden: Monet, Claude [1840-1926] of Beethoven, Ludwig van [1770 – 1827]”


It's the right use of brackets but why is the second example different (hyphen minus between two blanks)?


It just causes confusion for the collector looking at the instructions when putting in a new item or changing one (and certainly before looking into the manual…)


2) The input field “Designer/Engraver” should have a similar text with examples in order to avoid all misunderstanding concerning the use of square brackets.


3) There are for now deviating texts next to the input field “Person themes” on the sites in another language, for instance examples with round brackets (French site) or without any examples (English and German site).


All collectors are entitled to receive exactly the same instructions, so that we don’t have to complain any longer about doubles or bad input.
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May 28, 2021 20:29
 It's the right use of brackets but why is the second example different (hyphen minus between two blanks)? 
We agree that it is written in the following way:  Beethoven, Ludwig van [1770–1827] 

 2) The input field “Designer/Engraver” should have a similar text with examples in order to avoid all misunderstanding concerning the use of square brackets. 
OK, it has been adjusted.

 3) There are for now deviating texts next to the input field “Person themes” on the sites in another language, for instance examples with round brackets (French site) or without any examples (English and German site). 
 OK, it has been adjusted. 
  • Catalogue administrator
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May 28, 2021 21:08
Is there a (simple) procedure that can be followed if you as a user notice a 'strange condition'?

I happened to find a threesome with something rattling :):

Alexander VII of the Catholic Church (1599-1667) (Chigi, Fabio)
Chigi, Fabio (Alexander VII of the Catholic Church (1599-1667))
Chigi, Fabio (1599-1667)

The first should refer to the third instead of the second. The second is missing the dates of life, which must be replaced by the third.

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May 28, 2021 21:57
Raoul62
My apologies for anyone who gets too technical.
Take a good look at the page link at the top when you click on it (note, no item numbers this time!):
Your first 2769391 .... ... and your second 2769391 ..... have the same number and are aliases of each other. Adjustments by an administrator. There is actually no second, this is the same.
Your third 2568457 ...... is another (and therefore double) that we do not want. If the items are few, you can change them to the correct one yourself because it already exists. If there are many items, ask an administrator for this as well.
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May 28, 2021 22:22
Indeed, as I wrote, the first now refers to the second.
But I would guess it must be the third. After all, the 2nd (as the alias of the first) itself does not contain the life dates. Or is that the intention?
I thought it was customary to indicate the year of birth and, if applicable, the year of death (with a dash in between) in brackets (formerly round, now square) with a person's name.
Now, if name and alias are always shown and used together, including those dates in the (long) line once seems to be enough.

Then the third wheel is too much for it.
As I wrote: a threesome that rattles.

The question remains what the (existing and described) procedure is to pass on such things.

Always everything via email, that's too crazy to let loose. I watch a lot and therefore see a lot. But I try to limit mail traffic drastically. It should enter the workflow in a simple and effective way ...

... an ultrasound that was 6 months on the road lol ...
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May 28, 2021 22:49
Now, when name and alias are always shown and used together, one time including those dates in the (long) line seems enough.

That is correct. Aliases must not contain additions [years].
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May 28, 2021 23:40
Several questions have been asked, to which question do you expect an answer?
As I said: the original. About the correct name of Charlie, son or Lizzie, father of Willie.
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June 02, 2021 14:38
Collectioneur
Dear Tammo.
Have another question in between.
If those brackets are replaced by square brackets, what happens to that bracket in the Songs, does something happen to that too or does it stay that way?
Two Samples of Songs by the Carpenters.
Jambalaya (On the Bayou)
(They Long To Be) Close To You
Greet John.
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