Stamps/se-tenant variants (combinations)68 messages

In een vorig forum-onderwerp kwam dit reeds zijdelinks ter sprake:

/forums/195-afspraken-over-toevoegen-gegevens/topics/7409-verkopers-om-gek-van-te-worden 

Ik heb een voorgedrukt album van een gerenomeerd Duits merk met alle mogelijke variaties/combinaties van Belgische zegels uit boekjes, vellen en stroken, vanaf blad 1 (1969) tot blad 47 (1995 = einde van mijn eigen verzameling). Zulke voorgedrukte bladen worden niet uitgegeven als daar geen interesse voor zou zijn, denk ik dan.

Maar, behalve de combinaties van boekjes, kan(mag) ik de varianten van se-tenant, stroken of velletjes niet inbrengen in de reguliere postzegelcatalogus. Gegarandeerd zal er nu wel iemand gemakkelijkheidshalve deze in de sterfput, alias "overige" willen gedumpt zien, maar ik vind dat toch wel een vernederende plaats, waar meestal geen kat naar kijkt ,,,,,,,,, om een leuke verzameling in te bergen.

Is er een andere mogelijkheid?

This was already mentioned in a previous forum topic:

/forums/195-agreements-about-add-data/topics/7409-sellers-to-drive- crazy

I have a pre-printed album of a renowned German brand with all possible variations/combinations of Belgian stamps from booklets, sheets and strips, from page 1 (1969) to page 47 (1995 = end of my own collection). Such pre-printed magazines would not be published if there was no interest in them, I think.

But, except for the combinations of booklets, I cannot (may) not include the variants of se-tenant, strips or sheets in the regular stamp catalogue. Guaranteed someone will now want to see it dumped in the death pit, aka "other", for the sake of convenience, but I think that is a humiliating place, which usually no cat looks at ,,,,,,,, to put a nice collection in to store.

Is there another option?

Als het bedoeld is om postzegels in te steken of te plakken mag het bij Verzamelalbums. Of vergis ik mij?

If it is intended for inserting or pasting stamps, it is allowed at Collection Albums . Or am I mistaken?

Wat 'se-tenant' betekent, weet ik niet, maar hier staat al veel.

De rubriek Overig is trouwens geen vernederende plaats, hoor. Het betekent alleen dat voor de dingen die daarin staan (nog) geen eigen verzamelgebied is ingericht. Er zijn helemaal geen vernederende plaatsen.
Zodra er wél een verzamelgebied voor is, worden de betreffende items naar dát gebied verplaatst en willen we ze niet meer zien in Overig. Zo werkt het.

I don't know what "se-tenant" means, but there's a lot here already.

The Other section isn't a demeaning place, by the way. It only means that no separate collection area has been set up for the things contained therein (yet). There are no degrading places at all.
As soon as there is a collection area for it, the items in question will be moved to that area and we no longer want to see them in Other. That is how it works.

@Zwendel

No, no, the intention is to enter the stamp combinations in the catalog. Se-tenant is allowed in the se-tenant section, but variations thereof are not, not even the variations of stamps of blocks, sheets, strips and roll stamps.

Rie is not concerned with the album, but with its content.

Oops, too late.

Aha! Then I will withdraw from this discussion and leave it to the stamp managers. Although I would like to know what 'se-tenant' means ... (;-)

these were combinations that could be made of the stamps as they were published in stamp booklets. In the beginning, as a collector, you were forced in an ugly way to sometimes buy 3 or 4 books because different combinations were possible in each type of album and also pre-printed. So if you didn't want to spend that much money, you went looking for albums that had not pre-printed those combinations and the album was filled with 1 booklet anyway. Later the booklets were also published with all kinds of different texts and then you bought them again whether you wanted or not. The album had to be full ...

And I experienced that I had received an inheritance from an uncle. There were a lot of combinations in the albums. I wanted to have the latest version of those albums and what is my surprise: that new version didn't contain those combinations at all. So I was left with stamps that I couldn't put anywhere, but were still in the NVPH catalog, aaaarghhhhhh !!!!!!

Nu snap ik het niet helemaal (of helemaal niet...). Se-tenants zijn naar ik begrijp velletjes met aan elkaar zittende verschillende postzegels.

Bedoel je dat er dan voorgedrukte albums waren waarin die se-tenants moesten ingestoken worden of zaten die er al in?

Sorry voor die domme vragen maar ik weet helemaal niets van postzegels.

dat waren kombinaties die te maken waren van de zegels zoals ze in postzegelboekjes werden uitgegeven.

Bedoel je misschien dat die variaties ontstonden omdat je de zegels op een andere manier uitscheurde?

Now I don't quite get it (or not at all...). Se-tenants are, I understand, sheets with several stamps stuck together.

Do you mean that there were pre-printed albums in which those se-tenants had to be inserted or were they already there?

Sorry for the stupid questions but I don't know anything about stamps.

these were combinations that could be made from the stamps as they were issued in stamp booklets.

Do you perhaps mean that those variations arose because you tore out the seals in a different way?

Thanks, Morits, I get it now, I guess.
A se-tenant is an incomplete sheet of stamps.

A se-tenant is an incomplete sheet of stamps.

That is what I am now also beginning to understand. At first I thought they were special issues with several different stamps hanging together.

We are learning!

@scam

indeed, a sheet of stamps with different images / values / colors. Where different stamps were stuck together, there is a se-tenant (stuck together). Different combinations can then be made from a sheet, at least with the Dutch stamp booklets you were sewn on in the albums because every year you sometimes encountered different combinations (of stamps that were already there and now had to be refilled), you it went crazy ...

A very well-known se-tenant in the Netherlands was the famous cow. One stamp showed the front and the 2nd stamp showed the back. So you only had a complete cow if you had those 2 together. So they were also sold as 2-ling at the post office ...

A much more recent example are the comic envelopes issued by, yes, Catawiki

Info for philatelists and non-stamp collectors,

Se-tenant : (Zusammendrucke) 'holding each other' different stamps printed with one printing plate. I think everyone agrees on this.

Differences can be: image - color - front face (many also mention nominal value, but I don't see how you can change the value without changing the image)

Because there are so many Variants of se-tenants exist and still more people have tried to classify them.

This is how the terms came about:

Se-tenant-pair

Se-tenant triptych

Se-tenant block (from 4-6-8-9 -...)

Se-tenant strip (from 4-5-6 -...)

Se-tenant pairs are the most common. This is also where most subdivisions are made

Se-tenant-pair-reverse pressure

Se-tenant-pair-horizontal

Se-tenant-pair-vertical

Se-tenant- pair-tab

Se-tenant-pair -... etc ...

Every time a new fact occurs, one goes change the layout.

Greetings,

Renic

@renic

May I congratulate you on this obvious statement vab se-tenant.

I certainly couldn't have done it. Thanks for that!

Se-tenants combinations from stamp booklets are allowed, but combinations of stamps from a sheet, a strip or block are taboo for the regular stamp catalog.

This is not allowed:

Here an example of all combinations of a stamp with vignette: http: // s1145.photobucket.com/albums/o502/Multa-78/?action=view&current=a9958c17.jpg

Here is an example of combinations of stamps from a sheet:

http://s1145.photobucket.com/albums/o502/Multa-78/?action=view&current=a9958c17.jpg# ! oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp% 3A% 2F% 2Fs1145.photobucket.com% 2Falbums% 2Fo502% 2FMulta-78% 2F% 3Faction% 3Dview% 26current% 3D362c07f9.jpg

What is meant by a se-tenant is a complete series of stamps pressed together in a larger sheet. This is common in Canada and USA, for example. As an example, look at 1196379 . This block of 4 occurs several times in a sheet and is sought after by collectors.

Se-tenants combinations from stamp booklets are allowed, but combinations of stamps from a sheet, a strip or block are taboo for the regular stamp catalog.

You can sometimes combine endlessly with those from the sheets, hundreds of possible combinations from one sheet is no exception, leading to contamination of the catalog as each of which must become a separate item. In the Netherlands an attempt was once made to catalog the combinations from blocks. However, there was very little demand for that catalog or for these combinations.

Combinations from booklets are still manageable and, moreover, are still popular with many collectors and included in various catalogs and preprint albums.

@postmaster

That Canadian block of four is therefore not according to the Catawiki standard. But because it is in high demand, it is allowed. So these 3022967 and 3022971 is also allowed, because it also comes from a sheet of 24 (6x4), each row of which shifts with 2 stamps.

This doesn't make sense anymore.

By the way, the importer of those Canadian stamps has entered the separate stamps and the block of 4, but not the series. Speaking of consequence.

Example Canada: As far as I am concerned, the block of 4 (this is also the series) and the loose stamps and possibly the complete sheet. So 6 separate items. Yes, you can choose to take all possible combinations from this sheet and make separate items, then you will get to the 100 items. Great if someone collects it and adds it to their own collection, but don't bother other users with it.

I have to fix a mistake of mine: the comic envelope is not an example of a se-tenant, at least not the one I used as an example, Franka

@postmaster, Daan,kom uit je ivoren toren en begeef je tuusen de verzamelaars.

Ik schreef in mijn eerste bericht: eerste lijn

Ik heb een voorgedrukt album van een gerenomeerd Duits merk met alle mogelijke variaties/combinaties van Belgische zegels uit boekjes, vellen en stroken, vanaf blad 1 (1969) tot blad 47 (1995 = einde van mijn eigen verzameling).  

en jij schijft:

Combinaties uit boekjes zijn nog wel te overzien en bovendien nog steeds populair bij veel verzamelaars en opgenomen in diverse catalogi en voordrukalbums 

Verander de naam Combinatie dan in Boekjescombinaties.

Waar wel veel vraag en interesse voor is in andere landen, kan jullie blijkbaar geen reet schelen; het is en het moet op de Hollandse manier.

Hoe vind je in hemelsnaam dat ene item in een catalogus als dat item niet opgenomen is? Of zit het ergens verstopt, waar zoek ik dan? Oh nee, er is in Nederland geen interesse voor. En de rest van de wereld dan? Onderwerpen?

Ik ben vanaf nu dan ook niet meer gemotiveerd om nog nieuwe items te scannen en in te voeren. In mijn facts staat: Ingevoerde items: 1.419 ; dat zal dan ook niet snel meer veranderen. Jammer want zeker 35% van mijn verzameling is nog niet in de Catawiki catalogus ingevoerd.

Prima als iemand dat verzamelt en in de eigen verzameling toevoegt, maar val andere gebruikers daar niet mee lastig. 

Ik vind die hele nieuwe invoer van plaatfouten van Nederlandse postzegels pas echt oervervelend om naar te kijken, iets wat ook de meeste gebruikers de keel uithangt wegens non-interesse. Maar ik beschouw deze invoer wel als nuttig omdat het de catalogus completer maakt.

En maar rondbazuinen over het grondbeginsel dat alles wat verzameld kan worden ook in de Catawiki catalogus hoort te zitten. Waar dient Catawiki dan eigenlijk voor? Enkel te gebruiken door beginnelingen, beheerders en zeker ook de bijhorende Pro-verkopers? Filatelisten, zeker buitenlandse, liefst niet, want die zijn te critisch en hebben te complexe verzamelingen. Alhoewel....... de plaatfout-inbrenger (= NL), hij ploegde voort....

De leukste tijd van Catawiki ligt achter mij. Mijn verzameling hoort hier niet thuis, want dat stoort de andere gebruikers.               It's over.

En maar rondbazuinen over het grondbeginsel  ................s' Werelds grootste catalogus voor verzamelaars?

@postmaster, Daan, get out of your ivory tower and go among the collectors.

I wrote in my first post: first line

I have a pre-printed album of a renowned German brand with all possible variations/combinations of Belgian stamps from booklets, sheets and strips, from page 1 (1969) to page 47 (1995 = end of my own collection).

and you write:

Combinations from booklets are still manageable and, moreover, still popular with many collectors and included in various catalogs and pre-print albums

Then change the name Combination to Booklet combinations.

What there is a lot of demand and interest for in other countries, you apparently don't give a shit; it is and it should be the Dutch way.

How on earth do you find that one item in a catalog if that item is not included? Or is it hidden somewhere, where do I look? Oh no, there is no interest in the Netherlands for it. And what about the rest of the world? Subjects?

From now on I am no longer motivated to scan and enter new items. My facts state: Items entered: 1,419 ; that will not change any time soon. Too bad, because at least 35% of my collection has not yet been entered in the Catawiki catalogue.

Fine if someone collects it and adds it to their own collection, but don't bother other users with it.

I find the whole new import of plate errors of Dutch stamps really annoying to look at, something that most users also hate because of non-interest. But I do consider this entry useful because it makes the catalog more complete.

And just spreading the word about the principle that everything that can be collected should also be in the Catawiki catalogue. So what is Catawiki actually for? Can only be used by novices, administrators and certainly also the associated Pro sellers? Preferably not philatelists, especially foreign ones, because they are too critical and have too complex collections. Although....... the plate error contributor (= NL), he plowed on....

The best time of Catawiki is behind me. My collection doesn't belong here, because it disturbs the other users. It's over.

And gossip about the principle ............... The World's Largest Collector's Catalogue?

@Rie,

The best times at Catawiki are behind me. My collection does not belong here, because that bothers the other users. It's over.

And spread the word about the principle ................ The world's largest catalog for collectors?

I also tried 4 times to enter my collection when I enter a Se-tenant

it gets rejected, so I can not my enter collection, I tried it all over again 4 times

[removed by forum moderator: please stay on topic and not lash out at catalog managers]

catalog ????

@Rie

Wat jammer dat er geen reactie komt van de beleidmensen.

Voor mij is weeral die onbeleefdheid en negatie van gebruikers een brug te ver.

Ik verwijder vandaag nog mijn account.

@Rie

What a pity that there is no response from the policy people.

Again, for me, the rudeness and negation of users is a bridge too far.

I am deleting my account today.

@Rie and Sinbad,

It has been the policy from the beginning of the stamp section not to include sheet parts and combinations from sheets in the catalog. In other sections there are also guidelines for what can and cannot be included, so that the catalog also remains somewhat clear. If you want to see all the combinations in the catalog of a sheet with 100 different stamps, then, if I remember my statistics lessons correctly, that involves 100 factorial (also written as: 100!) Combinations. You just have to calculate how much that is ...

Another thing is whether you can include them in your collection: that is certainly allowed. You simply enter the sheet as a catalog item in your collection and indicate the relevant combination from the sheet with your own image and your own notes. If you want to put all combinations of such a sheet in your collection, you can. I fear you will be busy for a while :-)

By the way, an import manual for the stamp section is in the making. If there is, then these discussions will also have to be conducted a little less because it will then be clear in one place what the entry rules of the catalog are. Even then, matters can be brought up for discussion, but then the current rules are in any case well described.

What a shame there is no response from the policy people.

Once again, this rudeness and negation from users is a bridge too far for me.

This is incomprehensible. Daan responds quite quickly and gives arguments why these kinds of items are not allowed (I know these kinds of considerations, because they play in every section) and now it is pretended that there is no response. What is that all about? There has been a response. And even by an administrator, so what more do you want when it comes to policy?

You can use Catawiki for your entire collection, there is no lie. In this case, you include such a set that is in Catawiki and you add that the stamps are in reverse order for you. Or you put the sheet in your collection and add that you only have 2 or 4 stamps in a block. Just accept that incomplete sheets should not be entered and that you have to create your own solution for that in your notes.

edit: I was typing this and then the phone rang, so René was just like me for.

Rene

ff in short, that 100 factorial does not apply to a sheet of stamps. Stamp 1 can never be combined with nr 100, because there are no borders ... And so many more combinations are not possible, it remains that there are a number. Moreover, it is true that stamp collectors in this way cannot dispose of their collection as they own it in CW and that is annoying for many collectors and so they quit ...