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February 09, 2024 18:37
Railroads, trains, locomotives, rail transport, steam traction..........: do we really need all these themes?
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az60
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February 09, 2024 18:56
Yeah. Motif collectors of trains or locomotives, theme collectors of railways and rail transport, steam-based sub-distributors, away here. We don't need you here. You are not welcome here. Just go somewhere else. We already have collectors of biblical scenes, birds and animals. That's more than enough.
schipper53 You mean something like that?
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February 09, 2024 19:40
No az60, I think schipper53 means, to look at rail transport and railways for example, and whether this can't be combined with trains for example?.
The same as with boats, ships and shipping.
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nlae
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February 09, 2024 20:06
Charles1971 schipper53 What az60 means is that your unstoppable urge to abandon themes is a middle finger to all theme collectors - An example - Recently at space travel to drop the theme of astronauts - How did you come up with the idea?
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February 09, 2024 20:16
As far as I'm concerned, astronauts can come back nlae , just like composers or poets, for example. But very overlapping themes such as rail transport and railways, or boats and ships, cannot be merged? In the interest of the collector?.
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February 09, 2024 20:32
In my opinion, the problem with themes was and is that endless lists are entered into the theme area. Also, for example, in series, completely illogical.
An attempt has been made to shorten the list. This attempt, with good intentions, was not successful.
Perhaps another proposal would work better, for example by limiting the number of themes per item? In the end, don't the most important themes remain?
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az60
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February 09, 2024 21:37
nlae
That was indeed the correct translation of my message. Thank you.

Unfortunately, my message still falls on deaf ears. Country collectors who don't listen to their little stepbrother, the theme collector. The big brother, the country collector, who has no theme collection, has no knowledge of theme collecting, but thinks he knows how to do it all. What nonsense. Just read my old posts. Time and time again I indicate that you should scale down in terms of themes and not scale up. What is proposed is neither meat nor fish. Unfortunately, there are still too many people (country collectors?) who think they know better than the theme collector with experience. But yes, it is the reality in the Netherlands nowadays. Nowadays, decisions are no longer made on the basis of knowledge, experience and solution orientation. Emotion, ego(centr)ism, pedantry, disinterest, laziness, accountant mentality and especially the need to be re-elected, determine which decisions (broader than/beyond Lastdodo) are made nowadays. Hopefully, knowledge and experience will still be listened to within LastDodo. And more importantly, recommendations are adopted, even if you, as a layman, think differently. So scale down.
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Helv
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February 10, 2024 09:49
Time and time again I indicate that you should scale down in terms of themes and not scale up
In my perception, "scaling down" means fewer themes. That's not what you meant, is it?
In addition, the conclusion of the previous discussion was that it is preferable to add multiple (at least two) levels to Themes:
Level 1: Rail transport
Level 2: trains, railways, locomotives

But also:
Level 1: Steam traction
Level 2: (steam) trains, (steam) locomotives

However, there is currently no mechanism for this and it is not clear (to me) what it should look like.
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nlae
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February 10, 2024 12:18
Helv But what is the point of working on levels - Recently discussions with the Fdc about the argument of increasing the viewing pleasure of the collector - Now the same collector is frustrated with the search options - A collector searches for keywords so there is can't vouch for it enough.
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Helv
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February 10, 2024 16:12
But what is the point of working at levels?
Theme collectors not only want to "search" but also want to be able to structure their collection.
In addition, an importer just needs to know what themes are in the list. The more themes (keywords) the more difficult this becomes.
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nlae
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February 10, 2024 19:58
Helv How someone can structure a collection by working on theme levels is beyond me - Perhaps a few major collectors would like to respond to this - By the way, if Rene lets us know that the level plan is not possible, we can abandon that idea.

The more themes (keywords) the more difficult this becomes.

We have different opinions on this - I have quite a bit of experience with data entry and believe me, the more themes available, the easier and faster it is - If at a certain point you cannot find a suitable theme, you quickly think "never mind"
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az60
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February 10, 2024 21:08
In my perception, "scaling down" means fewer themes.
By scaling down I meant making the theme smaller. So don't merge themes. To properly maintain a motif/theme collection, you are dependent on a large number of themes within Lastdodo. I'll make another argument.
First of all, you hope that your subject is offered as a theme. One collects animals. Under the My collection button you can then select the animal theme. Et voila, you have your animal collection in view. Perfect, keep it that way. Another does not collect all the animals, but only the arthropods. Yes, he is unlucky, because the arthropod theme is missing. This person cannot visualize his collection if, in addition to arthropods, he also collects Belgium, for example. A third saves only insects, a fourth only beetles and a fifth only ladybugs. These people can get by, because these themes are still offered. Another person who only collects dragonflies is unlucky again And so you can continue. The theme is to a motif/theme collector what a country is to a country collector. Merging themes is therefore of the same order as merging countries. The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, UK, etc. can be merged into Western Europe, right? All very clear. Why then do you continue to merge themes? Completely incomprehensible. My only possible conclusion is that motif/theme collectors are not welcome at LastDodo. But then say that and delete all themes. It's a matter of all or nothing. Because one person only collects spaceships, another only collects astronauts. Or someone only collects locomotives, another collects everything related to railways and a third collects everything related to public transport. And a real theme collector makes all kinds of jumps to unrelated themes. Think of Churchill with his cigars, his bowler hat, his past in South Africa, his prime ministership during the Second World War, his allies and opponents, his legacy, etc. very diverse. How do you look for matching stamps? That is only possible with many themes.
Small themes (< 25 pages, 15?) are also indispensable when searching for a specific stamp. If you are a collector of ladybugs, you will now find 3 pages with these beetles under the ladybugs theme. Excellent, wonderfully clear. With very little effort you can see which stamps you have, which ones you still need, who sells them and how expensive they are. And you quickly see which stamps in your possession are not yet in the catalogue. If the lumpers have their way, the ladybug theme will soon be dropped and moved to beetles. Then you have to look for the stamps with ladybugs among all the other beetles. That's already 24 pages. That's starting to look like work instead of a hobby. This is the same as Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg being combined within 1 area. We call that area Benelux and from now on you can search for and keep track of your stamps there. But the accountants are not yet satisfied. Beetles are insects and can also be classified there, already 179 pages. Fortunately :-( the theme of arthropods is missing, but for the fanatics who don't want to stop, we still have the animals section. Can also be combined, right. Only 1463 pages, so that's wonderfully clear, right.
I have nothing against defining the content of a theme. On the contrary. And if themes are really identical or overlap, then I can imagine that adjustments will be made. But now it's merging for merging's sake. And what bothers me most is that no one, absolutely no one, explains why all these themes need to be combined. Start with that.
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az60
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February 10, 2024 22:31
How someone can structure a collection by working at thematic levels is beyond me
For my animal collection I need 6 to 7 levels. (So I work with my animal collection outside of Lastdodo). These levels are: Phylum - Class - Order - Family - Genus - Species - Subspecies. The last one is a bit marginal. Many seals cannot be traced back to the subspecies. I don't collect by country, but by species. The species is the basis. So in my collection all lions (Panthera leo) are together. The lion belongs to the genus Panthera, as do the leopard, jaguar, tiger and snow leopard (in that order). These together form the next level. Together with a number of other genera, such as Felis, Neofelis, Caracal, Leptailurus, Leopardus, Puma, Acinonyx, etc., they form the family (and therefore the level) of the felines Felidae). These species are closer together in my collection than, for example, the bear family (Ursidae) or the canid family (Canidae). With a few more families, these belong to the order of Predators (Carnivora), my next level. Another level higher we come to the mammals. This includes a lot of animals with a number of distinguishing features, compared to other classes. One of those properties is that the young are nourished by 'milk' from the mammary glands of the female. Mammals basically have hair, but they also occur outside this group. They are viviparous, with the exception of the platypus and the echidna, which lay eggs. And there are even more (anatomical) similarities. Together with other classes, such as birds, reptiles, amphibians, bony fish, cartilaginous fish, lampreys, lancefish, sea squirts and a number of other (extinct) groups, they form the tribe of chordates. Other phyla include sponges, cnidarians, molluscs, arthropods and echinoderms. However, under the influence of recent (DNA) insights, this traditional classification is changing into a different system, based on cladding. The relationship is better represented in a clade. For example, dinosaurs and birds are closely related and are together in the class Sauropsida. The Bird class no longer exists (bad news for Miris), nor does the Reptile class. All species that are in the development of 'mammals' then belong to the class Synapsida. The difference is in the number of cavities in the skull. The class of mammals no longer exists, but is part of the Synapsida.
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Helv
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February 11, 2024 00:45
Why then do you continue to merge themes?
No themes have been merged (except for one or two real overlapping items) in quite some time.

A while ago a nice schedule was drawn up (with two levels). Some synonyms/duplications emerged. There may be more overlap, but I think it would be more useful to make concrete proposals (with substantiation/explanation).
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az60
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February 12, 2024 00:17
There may be even more overlap
I have indicated that there is much more overlap. Lions are completely overlapped by cats and felines, which are completely overlapped by predators, which in turn are completely overlapped by mammals, which are in turn completely overlapped by animals, which are again completely overlapped by nature and to a lesser extent nature conservation. From my example it should be clear that if there is overlap, you aim for division and not merging. But to me it is clear that they continue to scale up (large units), while they need to scale down (many different small themes). Unfortunately, there is no indication that people are coming to their senses and meeting the theme/motif collector.
The idea that a theme/motif collector can work with 2 levels is an accountant's idea. As I indicated in my example, a theme/motion collector needs many levels. But continue calmly on the path you have chosen. The message is clear: The theme/motif collector is provided with very limited basic tools to maintain the collection. Oh no, sorry, not to keep up with the collection, that's no longer possible. My conclusion is clear. The theme/motif collector is not welcome at LastDodo. The country collectors have decided this way.
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Helv
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February 12, 2024 01:11
theme/motif collector provided only very limited basic tools to maintain the collection. Oh no, sorry, not to keep up with the collection, that's no longer possible.
No tools are missing. The 2 levels I mentioned were not there in the past, they are not there now but will hopefully be realized in the future.

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February 12, 2024 11:10
I've said it before and I'll keep repeating it. Thematic collecting is so individual in terms of detail and delineation of a theme that this can never be achieved at catalog level.
Can only be solved to collectors' satisfaction if one can assign self-chosen themes to items in one's own collection.......future music.
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nlae
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February 12, 2024 12:40
pegag 100% agree with you - However, LD can accommodate collectors with as many themes as possible instead of merging - And at what level those themes are divided we will see later (If it is possible to divide it into levels to divide)
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February 12, 2024 12:51
pegag
Completely agree with you.

nlae
An unbridled long list will lead to more problems than solutions. A new collector will no longer see the forest because of the many trees and will decide to ignore that field.
Also do not forget that every Dutch-language theme must also be translated into other languages. This will cause problems because in some languages the same term is used while in NL several terms are used (+ vice versa).
You do not have this problem if the collector himself adds his theme designation to his item in his collection.
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February 12, 2024 13:00
they are not there now but will hopefully be realized in the future.
In the meantime Helv , maybe one can even add a few more themes, upon request?. For example Astronauts and Composers.
As far as I know, many themes have also disappeared, because of the pollution. But now you can start again with a clean slate.

Just look at the theme of Biblical representations , the only one that has returned. And how it is now valued and how much it is now being used.
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nlae
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February 12, 2024 13:16
Collectioneur There is still a lot of room between more themes and an unbridled long list - A theme collector will never leave the field behind.

Helv gave as an example
Level 1: Rail transport
Level 2: trains, railways, locomotives

But also:
Level 1: Steam traction
Level 2: (steam) trains, (steam) locomotives

(Steam) trains and (steam) locomotives are not currently included in the themes - So with his example he already indicates that expansion can be done - Why not now and later possibly split it into levels.

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February 12, 2024 13:23
A theme collector will never ignore the field.

That is exactly where the problem lies. Most people are not theme collectors and will therefore not fill in this field if they have a large choice.

The idea of pegag means that, as a theme collector, you enter "Steam locomotive" or something like that in your own collection/search list under Comments.
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February 12, 2024 13:38
That is exactly where the problem lies. Most people are not theme collectors and will therefore not fill in this field if they have a large choice.

In my opinion, a non-theme collector who does not fill in this field Collectioneur for a large choice will also not do so for a smaller choice. Or are these figures, hard facts?

By the way, I see more and more theme collectors appearing at LD. This is an observation, without hard evidence. But I think several people make this observation. So make sure that theme collectors and theme sellers feel at home here.
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nlae
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February 12, 2024 14:17
Collectioneur 90% of my buyers are theme collectors who not only buy stamps but also add more and more Jul and closing stamps.
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az60
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February 12, 2024 16:17
Most people are not theme collectors and will therefore not fill in this field if they have a large choice.
This is completely irrelevant.
Especially when a theme collector is offered the options, he or she will fill in the missing themes. That's precisely the power of a Wiki. And that illustrates how important a wide range of themes is for the theme collector.
I think more than 95% of my changes, outside of Indonesia, are about adding themes. There are therefore many animal stamps, to which all animal themes have now been added, such as #3057031 . And I saw more and more people doing that. Of course, you first visualize your own collection. When transferring it to Excel, I saw that I had forgotten quite a few things. I would do that in a next phase. As a result of the discussion about themes, I will no longer do that. Then I would also start on stamps that I don't have. I'm not going to do that at all anymore. And secretly I still had the ambition to mention the correct scientific name for all animal stamps in the Depicted on stamp field in order to create the best catalog for collectors of animal stamps, a showpiece. A reason for collectors to come and stay at Lastdodo. But he won't be able to do that anymore. All those animal names now don't get any further than my Excel file. The motivation is gone.
After more than 10 years of dabbling with Lastdodo, I have now chosen Excel for my animal stamps. There I can filter, sort and combine what I want. Unfortunately, the potential that Lastdodo had did not materialize and never will. This was the wrong cut. It is neither meat nor fish now.
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