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Helv
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February 04, 2024 14:42
There are currently several color schemes in LD, based on various catalogs. In my opinion, this has created duplications in colors.
For example, "Bister" and "Yellow brown", where in some cases even "Bistre clair" was again mentioned as an alias for "Light yellow brown".

Shouldn't we try to rationalize this a bit? Where a combination of "real" colors, such as "Yellow Brown" is preferred over "Bister"?

Wikipedia also describes bister as "Bister is a yellow-brown color pigment".
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February 04, 2024 14:52
Helv
Just looking at the current colors of Postage Stamps makes my head spin, so you have my victory in rationalizing.
Because it escapes me what exactly the objective difference is between, for example, Blueblack and Blackblue.
Are there standards for this?
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February 04, 2024 14:52
Bister varies enormously in color shade: from dark black-brown to brownish-saffron yellow
cool green-brown
Bister doesn't really seem to be a specific color to me Helv , so it's unusable for exact colors.
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Helv
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February 04, 2024 15:02
Collectioneur There are special color guides/colour ranges (comparable to the well-known RAL ranges from painting companies) published by a number of publishers of paper catalogues. You can compare this color with your seal.
Either something blue-black or black-blue is a somewhat arbitrary choice by a publisher. Unfortunately, you often see that different choices are made. That is something different than both including "bister" and "yellow brown".

A color such as " bottle green " also seems to say nothing. None of these stamps seem to be the same color (and I don't even mean the blue puffin, but the really green one).
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Helv
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February 04, 2024 15:11
FYI: "Seal Red" was translated as "Red" in all other languages. Out of necessity, "Zegelred" has now been merged with "Red"
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February 04, 2024 15:14
Here are two examples of black-blue #295807 and blue-black #5206525 Collectioneur and Helv .
In black-blue the main color is blue and in blue-black the main color is black. It's a clear difference.
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February 04, 2024 15:35
FYI: "Seal Red" was translated as "Red" in all other languages. Out of necessity, "Zegelred" has now been merged with "Red"

In German it is Ziegelrot Helv, translation into Dutch is brick red.
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Helv
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February 04, 2024 15:46
Charles1971 if you compare with another scan of the same stamp the difference is less clear #4867239 (of course you have to look at the dark parts). Even the difference with gray-blue is difficult to see on a scan #2134637 (color according to Michel,

By the way, there was still something wrong with it #5206525 (issue etc.) in LD is black blue. By the way, the original entry in 2011 was "blue-black" and was adjusted in 2012.

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February 04, 2024 16:01
It is therefore better to speak of blackish blue (schwärzlich-blau) and bluish black (bläulich-schwarz).
If you want to lump all these specific colors togetherHelv , you've lost in my opinion. Think about it calmly and look at some examples.
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Helv
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February 04, 2024 16:03
Charles1971 there is no point in lumping these colors together. I'm just confirming that Collectioneur is right that the difference is often difficult to see and through scans such nuances are completely impossible.
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February 04, 2024 16:05
Okay Helv, then luckily I was wrong.
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February 04, 2024 16:25
A color such as " bottle green " also seems to say nothing. None of these stamps seem to be the same color (and I don't even mean the blue puffin, but the really green one).



Flaschengrün / #283424 Hex Farbcode

Genau appropriate Farben:
  • GM / General Motors Grenade Green
The bright green color with the hexadecimal code #283424 is a thin color of green . Im RGB-Farbmodell enthält #283424 15.69% Red, 20.39% Green and 14.12% Blue. With HSL-Farbraum hat #283424 a Farbtonwinkel from 105° (Grad), 18% Satisfaction and 17% Helligkeit. Diese Farbe hat een undefähre Wellenlänge von 555.77 nm.

Bottle green is also an existing, specific color Helv .
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Helv
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February 04, 2024 16:44
Charles1971 interesting that General Motors calls this color garnet green instead of Bottle green.

It is an interesting option to jettison the entire color system, which is now a mix of several catalogues, and replace it with the RAL color system. What is missing is the clarity?

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February 04, 2024 16:49
I think General Motors is a Helv car factory. In any case, they have nothing to do with stamps.

It is an interesting option to jettison the entire color system, which is now a mix of several catalogues, and replace it with the RAL color system.

Not an option, it's good the way it is. Just a few translations, and everything is clear.
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February 04, 2024 17:05
Charles1971
What Mark means are General Motors spray cans or paint pens to touch up, for example, stone chips to match the exact colors of your car.
In the printing house where I worked, we also work with special colors for Banks, for example, Sparkasse Rot, I think you know that color.
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  • February 04, 2024 17:09
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February 04, 2024 17:09
Helv 
 Wikipedia also describes bister as "Bister is a yellow-brown color pigment". 
The title of this article is "Bister (color)"
and further states:"...Bister komt uit het Frans van het woord 'bistre' wat staat voor bruin, hazelnootkleurig, donkerbruin of chocoladebruin. Het woord komt voor sinds de 16e eeuw. De oorsprong ervan is onbekend..."
Also read carefully the English version related to "Variations of bistre - Bistre - Bistre brown - French bistre - Spanish bistre..."
See also for "bottle green" the site:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_green#Bottle_green
I can understand that someone who mainly uses the Michel catalog hardly knows "bistre".
In Belgium and France, this color often occurs in the catalogs. So get rid of that?  
Your tendency to control everything is very shortsighted, biased and incomplete.
Helv
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February 04, 2024 17:13
Charles1971 I am of the opinion that "bottle green" now also appears as a different color in the catalog and that the stamps now listed under bottle green have little in common in terms of color.

Take the beautiful Dutch stamp #307079 as an example. What exact color is this?
NVPH: Steel gray
Michel: Dunkelblaugrau ("dark blue-gray")
Yvert: Gris-vert ("green-gray")
Scott: Slate blue ("Slate gray")

Which color do we choose?
Personally, I think "Dunkelblaugrau" and "Gris-vert" are the clearest, but "dark blue-gray" and "green-gray" don't really seem synonymous to me.
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Helv
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February 04, 2024 17:20
Bister comes from the French word 'bistre' which stands for brown, hazelnut-colored, dark brown or chocolate brown.
Thank you for demonstrating that "bistre" is not a clear color indication and is therefore an unhelpful addition to identifying a stamp. Of course, the term is necessary if you want to retype a catalogue.

The example in my previous post shows that you have to make a choice which catalog that is and then make agreements about this.
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February 04, 2024 17:44
Helv
You mean #307079?
Am I now color blind?
Is this now dark gray-blue (Steel gray) as you and your co-administrator think?
I see two colors: gray-blue and dark gray-blue.
But you will know better, as always?
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February 04, 2024 17:50
I don't think we're going to get out of here Helv . Apparently there is a color difference internationally, there is a difference of opinion in color. I'm not a color expert, but in this case I'm going for the NVPH. Surely they will know the most about their own stamps?

Maybe we can come back to this very minor issue another time?. For example, if all other issues have been resolved? A little translation, and everything is fine.
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February 04, 2024 18:09
e.g. Sparkasse Rot, I think you know that color.
I know that Lyonesse . But on the bank, not from stamps.


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February 04, 2024 18:16
I see two colors: gray-blue and dark gray-blue.
Isn't that more often a problem when describing a colour? 
When a  dark gray-blue ink was used the central frame has that full colour (100%), but the surrounding frame has a lighter tint (around 60-70% I would guess). The portrait shows a larger spectrum of basically the same colour.
I very much doubt that the stamp was printed in two different inks.
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February 04, 2024 18:51
What is the essence of stating an exact color? Precisely distinguishing color varieties of a particular seal. In all other cases, the exact color is just a fun fact. Nice, but unnecessary. In this way the catalog can be cleaned up considerably. For all stamps that do not have color variants, one or more basic colors will suffice. And only for color variants do you mention the exact color. Easy. Everything else is indeed nothing more than copying existing catalogues.
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February 04, 2024 18:56
 I very much doubt that the stamp was printed in two different inks. 
It's possible, but it isn't an argument. The comment next to the field mentions "Seeing more colours?"
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February 04, 2024 19:21
What is the essence of stating an exact color? Precisely distinguishing color varieties of a particular seal. In all other cases, the exact color is just a fun fact. Nice, but unnecessary. In this way the catalog can be cleaned up considerably. For all stamps that do not have color variants, one or more basic colors will suffice.

Not quite az60 in my opinion.

For example, this one, #353645 . With this one you can see a clear color difference between the blue colors. I think this is quite good for comparison. Indeed, as Helv says, there should not have been any messing around with the colors of the scan.
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