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September 22, 2022 17:18
TWIC
why isn't the manual just posted with a link on the homepage of stamps, what's the major objection not to put it there?
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  • September 22, 2022 17:25
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September 22, 2022 17:25
now I see that the title of every stamp from a series (I just call it that, because I have been doing it for 60 years) must be the same, because it stands so calmly(??) , why also an issue for which the same thing applies. That's double. When I look for a stamp with a building name on it, I really don't know what the series is called. Why make it so unbelievably difficult.

I thought a maxim in Catawiki and now LastDodo was and is: indicate what is on the object, no more, no less.
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  • September 22, 2022 18:51
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September 22, 2022 18:51
When I look for a stamp with a building name on it, I really don't know what the series is called.

There is a field for that. And if the adder fills in that field, you'll get results if you search for it.



------------------



Just like there is a field for the 'Persons theme'. It makes no sense to list the name(s) in the title again.
The specific field 'Persons theme' is manageable, and there are strict conditions as to how the names are put there. In Dutch for the whole world and for all sections on LD: "Koten, Kees van". (see other discussion on this).

why isn't the manual just with a link on the home page of stamp

In answer to that question I got the answer: because LD does not want to allow an exception for the Stamps section. It's not on any rubric's main page.
Also the proposal to make it as ? or link in the background page of the section was not possible. Apparently that text is important to search engine indexes and wouldn't turn out well...
Also, there is no time for such changes.
For other rubrics the answer is sometimes shorter: because there is no manual :)
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  • 25 messages
  • September 22, 2022 20:20
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September 22, 2022 20:20
Is Morits , why isn't the Stamp Handbook on a simple link?
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  • September 22, 2022 20:29
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September 22, 2022 20:29
Now you have to go to stamps, change item. Many have difficulty taking this step. A simple link is much simpler, isn't it?
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September 22, 2022 21:29
Raoul62
Why field, I'm looking for what is on the stamp by name, I haven't ended up in any fields or roads with the stamp itself...
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  • September 22, 2022 21:35
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September 22, 2022 21:35
Raoul62
Simple: I have a stamp and it has a description on the stamp, I use that as a search item and cannot be found. Bullshit. Point.
The rule is: including as title what is on the object applies in all sections, so also with postage stamps
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September 22, 2022 21:54
Very simple, on every homepage of a section, in the large gray area, 4 buttons plus light blue drawing.
Drawing slightly up, enough space, and a 5th button manual included. That is peanuts for an experienced programmer. No years of planning required and everyone is happy. And we do it for the users, don't we?
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September 22, 2022 22:29
Morits
See screenshot example of previous post: I am indeed looking.
Perhaps by 'search' you mean going through 800,000 items and reading the title yourself each time. But that's not how I work. I use the search boxes, in combination with the filters on the left side of the screen.

You can also put 'Blue' in the title if it concerns a stamp that is blue in color. However, there is a special field for 'Colour'.

You could put the name of the seal, or the name of what's on it, very specifically in 'Title' indeed. You could even put it in the 'Tracking number in the issue' field, it would be found too.
However,
1. there is a special field: 'Pictured on seal'. Why not use that field?
2. if the handbook clearly states to keep the title the same when possible where possible, because it is quieter in those places where 'title' is used. Then why rebel and suggest other guidelines?

I do think that the men, and/or women, who at the time (far before my time) laid the foundation of the applicable rules of the game, were sufficiently skilled. And have not set up 'Wheel of Fortune' rules.

If you really want a "name" on a stamp to appear in the title field,
1. then you must always adopt the name as it appears on a seal. Literal. Even if it's in Chinese, Korean or Japanese;
2. if there is nothing on the stamp, then you do not put anything in the title. Then the 'title' field is empty;
3. then the field 'Pictured on seal' should disappear.
I'm afraid there will be a lot more reaction to that, because it is not workable.


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September 22, 2022 22:34
All nonsense, the stamp section has become a life-size monstrosity
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  • September 22, 2022 22:37
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September 22, 2022 22:37
Thank you so much for this great quote as a token of appreciation…
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  • September 22, 2022 22:48
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September 22, 2022 22:48
I won't get involved in a discussion about titles.

But as far as I'm concerned it would be preferable to link to the Basic Handbook and to a specific Handbook for the rubric (if available) on every rubric page.
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September 22, 2022 23:00
Raoul62
You forget the languages Spanish, Portuguese, Icelandic, Polish, Czech, Russian, Turkish, Arabic and so on. All have special characters that the "title" field must also accept. That requires a lot more programming work. Then it really gets messy..
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  • September 22, 2022 23:17
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September 22, 2022 23:17
Morits The handbook is correct everywhere, you only have to go to a country or category, you click on add new item, a yellow bar appears with a link "Handbook" and you do not have to add a new item to beat.
I also don't understand what you're looking for on the Home page? there's nothing to be found there, right?
I have saved pages at the top right of google on the bookmarks with the asterisk (for some your favorites) where I have to be daily, Orders, forum, shop, countries. and you can also read the manual
save there.
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  • 71 messages
  • September 23, 2022 04:06
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September 23, 2022 04:06
aartinge That's right, I've set it up in such a way that when you open it, you will immediately see department headings, and click on stamps or id. and get started
The home page is nowhere to be found, just the cover of the site.
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  • September 23, 2022 05:44
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September 23, 2022 05:44
History repeats itself. The title has been discussed before. As a result, the catalog manager at the time indicated that the title could not be the same everywhere, but that we would mention what was on the stamp. That meant that on all 4 stamps of a series the title was no longer predators, but was changed to wolf, tiger, lion and brown bear. Or in Morits example are different names of buildings. This decision was never included in the handbook. Unfortunately, not every administrator has received this change, because one person approves the split and the other does not. So much for history.
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  • September 23, 2022 08:45
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September 23, 2022 08:45
I defend the handbook, it is the only point of reference.
If it ever changes, I'll defend the new version just as much, tooth and nail, for the sole purpose of holding onto it. But then in openness and for everyone!

I do not know what happened or was proclaimed in the past.
If 'Rules' have been drawn up that are not included in the handbook, it is a sign of bad policy. How can I, or other new users, know what those rules are? How can you sin against holy houses if their contents are taboo?
See also the whole history of the main seal and 'various perforations'. Who gets pissed off because they sinned against an 'undisclosed rule or agreement' from 10 years ago ... who is rude then?
You'll just be new and mean well. How many new potentially good acquisitions (users) have left in no time with the feeling 'unwelcome'?

Also reminds me of the 'knowledge' about FDCs in Belgium. It is currently systematically disappearing into the grave with the collectors. No collector of that old guard has ever made the effort, or was willing, to share the knowledge and experience. Each and every one of them ego-trippers who jealously guarded their knowledge. Knowledge is power.
FDC's The Netherlands and territories: the internet is full of data and knowledge.
FDCs Belgium: nada. And if you ask someone from the 'old guard', you won't get an answer (check it out yourself).
Nobody wants such states on LD.

If for a field like title there have been some really brilliant thoughts behind it… where is that brilliant stuff to be found?
This is not an exclusive playground for a few seniors. Where behind the scenes you have to be initiated into the secrets and mysteries. This is a collaboration product. For all collectors. The chalk lines are drawn and clear for everyone when they are included in the manual. That there is no direct link to that manual on the main page has been asked many times. Maybe someday it will.
But the handbook is there, and anyone can find it, or ask for the way to the truth. I also had to ask in my early days (less than 2 years ago).

Specifically back to the sheep (subject):

If it has a Brown bear on it, enter 'Brown bear', or better yet 'Ursus arctos (Brown bear)' in the 'Pictured on seal' field.
Under themes, select 'Animals', 'Mammals', 'Bears.
At issue: 'YYYY issue name', where issue name can be eg 'Antwerp Zoo', 'National Park van Huppeldam' or 'Indigenous fauna'.
In the title a common name, to keep the overview in the overview and to clarify which stamps/items belong together.

The example below illustrates that. I can clearly distinguish 2 series, but a third series ... I don't see what belongs together. What is on the picture (and you can see) is written below it. Because space is limited in overviews, it is still truncated in many cases.


That offers no added value.

What's even worse is that the field, meant to fill in what is on the stamp, is simply ignored.



Truly: intellectually too ambitious for me. There is clearly a management mindset behind this of such a high level that only the concerned user (adder) can understand it.
Sometimes you have to turn the world upside down (turn it around), and that's how I write :)
We don't need such stuff (I'll call it pseudo-intellectual stuff for convenience) on LD. Keep it simple, simple, understandable and short. Make sure that the title in the overviews makes it clear what belongs together, and that the title is short enough to be shown in those overviews.

And also: if you can't read the 'labels' (such as 'Pictured on stamp'), don't start. If you can't read, then you definitely shouldn't add. Definitely not good.
And also: you don't have time to neatly fill in the fields of an item? Then add a little less, and think of quality. As a seller, what you add is your 'business card'.


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  • September 23, 2022 09:42
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September 23, 2022 09:42
The “Pictured on Seal” field is an abomination, because it is not quadrilingual.
Personally, I prefer to enter only the scientific name for plants and animals, without the Dutch name in brackets.
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September 23, 2022 10:06
I can clearly distinguish 2 series, but a third series ... I don't see what belongs together.
I often agree with you, but in this example I have no trouble distinguishing the three series, even if all the titles were different. She is neatly in order, the first two even with the series item behind it. In addition, there is (I assume) in the left column at the bottom a box “Issuance” with the three series names, with which you can select them separately.
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  • September 23, 2022 12:37
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September 23, 2022 12:37
The “Pictured on Seal” field is an abomination, because it is not quadrilingual.
Together with the comment Morits made at the beginning (uniformity in the catalogue), the lack of multilingualism in the field was the reason for Arco to give this change as a guideline. I think there was more, but I can't remember.
Raoul62
I think it's funny that someone who complains about the fact that the old guard of Belgian FDC collectors never shared their knowledge thinks it's rude for someone from LastDodo to share knowledge about LastDodo's past. Don't think so yourself :-). I also always think it is wise, before you take a position/make a final statement, you take note of the experiences of others, past experiences, discussions from the past. I would therefore never dismiss opinions of other people, who think otherwise, as pseudo-intellectual stuff. That makes any discussion impossible.
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  • September 23, 2022 13:31
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September 23, 2022 13:31
Anyone who gets screwed because they sinned against an 'undisclosed rule or appointment' from 10 years ago
Who has had a go at it? Many discussions have taken place before. It is good to make those discussions known and include them in a further discussion. I do not comment or criticize. I am only informing about the existence of a 10 year old guideline. What we do with that I leave completely open and can be discussed as far as I am concerned.
How can you sin against holy houses if their contents are taboo?
Things that are taboo should not be discussed. That's just what we do. So it is not taboo. If you mean that the content is not accessible and should have been listed in a clear place, then I agree.
How many new potentially good acquisitions (users) have left in no time with the feeling 'unwelcome'?
I think 0.0. However, many have left because the program did not meet their needs.
Nobody wants such states on LD.
That's why I did share that old knowledge. Nothing more and nothing less than that.
This is a collaboration product.
Indeed. This means that you listen to the opinions of others, that decisions are made and that guidelines are well established.
If it has a Brown bear on it, enter 'Brown bear', or better yet 'Ursus arctos (Brown bear)' in the 'Pictured on stamp' field
This does not work (well) for non-native speakers, because the field is not (was?)
I can clearly distinguish 2 series, but a third series...
It is remarkable that someone who was a fierce opponent of the series is now suddenly a strong supporter of the series and thinks that this should be clear in all situations. I'm going with stripspeldjes.
if you can't read the 'labels' (such as 'Pictured on seal'), don't start.
The field depicted on the stamp has more functions than just stating what is literally on the stamp. With stamps of plants and animals, if only because these names are not constant in time.
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September 23, 2022 13:37
az60

Rude is not aimed at a user who refers to it, because they once 'caught' it somewhere. It is always good to share something, even if there are no traces of it left. But what has not been laid down is not a rule, nor is it an agreement.

I am referring to bringing out a hammer or ax to break something down because it would have been agreed 'in the past' somewhere, somewhere, in a different way. I can't know that, and no user can know that .
I know what's in the handbook, and everyone should know that.

In the meantime, I have already seen many intellectual feats in several fields of the catalog.
It is not right that someone, no matter how much thought goes into it, on their own (for themselves or a limited group) manipulating fields or filling them in in a certain way.
For example, I already encountered the most complicated constructions in the field 'Sequence number in the issue'. Nice thinking perhaps, but incomprehensible and nowhere explained yet recorded. KISS (keep it short and simple).

A field that is not yet provided in the 4 languages is therefore not by definition a monstrosity or an abomination.
The field is one of the oars we row with. and we have to deal with that.
If the field did not exist, there was a demand for it in no time.
It does exist, but another field is (mis)/(used) to put the egg in it. Despite the clear statement in the manual (ball 4):

As a rule, all stamps in a series have the same title (first entry box). (that is most quiet in the photo gallery, so you can immediately see what belongs together).

And there are even exceptions allowed, also described in the manual.

Just like the previous times, and I will never give up: if something is clearly described, I will defend it tooth and nail.

It also clearly states, for everyone (ball 6):

Do not give unnecessary information in the title, which may be in other input fields

Conclusion: what you can put in the fields 'Pictured on stamp', 'Theme', 'Person themes', 'Tanding', ... I assume no further explanation is needed?

We have fields, and it is described what you can do with them (rules, agreements).
What we have, we should be thankful for.
What we don't have, we can dream of.


At point '14. In addition, it is stated in black and white in the handbook that this subject is not yet multilingual. We know that. And that will change someday.
Until then, you make do with it.
Until then you can put 'Ursus arctos (Brown bear - Brown bear - Braunbär - Ours brun)' in it, right? That doesn't seem illegal to me, does it?
With the search function it only yields advantages.
And even though there is a lot in that field, there will be no disadvantage associated with it.
If there is too much in the title: then you do have the disadvantages in, for example, the overviews (irregular, truncated, incoherent).

My point is also: this is how it has been working for 12 years, that is how it is described, that is how it has been agreed. I'll defend that to the last gasp. If administrators do not respect the agreements made, then the books will go, I'm afraid.

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  • 25 messages
  • September 23, 2022 19:22
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September 23, 2022 19:22
Phew, do we even know what it's about? Everything much too long, go to the point, please.
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September 23, 2022 20:23
Thank you for this 2nd response, Raoul62. I can do something with that.
To begin with, to prove you right. If agreements are not known, you cannot take this into account in the reviews. And those agreements should be recorded in the manual. So you won't get any criticism or comment from me about following the guidelines in the handbook. But one should also not be too rigid in enforcing the rules in the handbook. (Just to be clear, I'm not claiming/insinuating that you're too rigid). Because even constitutions can be changed. And what's in a constitution is a bit more important than what's in our handbook. And I think certain things in the manual should be changed.
As for the intellectual feat of 'sequence number in the issue', I must say that I was also guilty of that. This has to do with the order of the different parts of an issue, as shown in the gallery. It used to be like this:
First the stamps in ascending denomination, then the whole series, then the block and block stamp (I can't remember in which order those two), then the FDC and other products. Sometimes no wood of that order was right, for example seal 11 between 1 and 2. In those situations I messed with the serial number. What was needed was needed to get them in the right order. I can't help feeling that the order is less consistent these days. I see quite a lot of issues with different orders. Often a block stamp is placed between the 'normal' stamps. See Indonesia where many block stamps have different face values than the regular stamps.
As for the 'pictured on stamp' field, this is my concern. Because it is not defined in the handbook. What do you fill in? The one that's literally on the seal? Or what is depicted? There is a difference, because (some) names change, especially with plants and animals (my collecting area), but also buildings, such as the Johan Cruyff ArenA (was the Amsterdam ArenA). As for animals, see for example #4464393 . The stamp reads Felis euptilura. In the past, it may have been considered a separate species. (Possibly, because I don't trust Benin's commercial releases at all). Today it is at most a subspecies of the Bengal tiger cat, Prionailurus bengalensis. Anyone who wants to find the seal would like to have Felis euptilura in that field. Someone who saves Bengal tiger cats, like me, wants Prionailurus bengalensis in the field. Now I only do both. Then the stamp can be found for everyone.
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September 23, 2022 20:46
Juglans
The start is with 2 questions from Morits:
- Is the reference to the manual not possible with a link on the homepage?
- Can the title not state what is on the stamp?
With regard to the first point, I have heard no objections. Now for the implementation....
With regard to the second point, Morits indicated his opinion, I indicated that a step had been taken in that direction in the past and Raoul indicated that that step is not in the manual and that the manual should be followed. I hope I have summed everything up reasonably well in this way.
A few lean more towards Morits, a few others towards Raoul. So now you :-)
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€ 55.00
France 1936 - Atlantic crossing, 10 francs dark green. - Yvert 321
France 1936 - Atlantic crossing, 10 francs dark green. - Yvert 321
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€ 3.00
Württemberg - Pfennigs batch from no. 46 onwards
Württemberg - Pfennigs batch from no. 46 onwards
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€ 2.00
Liechtenstein 1931/2009 - Lot Liechtenstein + Switzerland stamps cancelled, FDC + maps - Kavel Liechtenstein + Zwitserland postzegels gestempeld, FDC + kaartenpe
Liechtenstein 1931/2009 - Lot Liechtenstein + Switzerland stamps cancelled, FDC + maps - Kavel Liechtenstein + Zwitserland postzegels gestempeld, FDC + kaartenpe
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€ 1.00
Switzerland - A selection of blocks including 1940 Pro Patria Block - Zumstein
Switzerland - A selection of blocks including 1940 Pro Patria Block - Zumstein
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€ 25.00
Switzerland 1910/1985 - Michel-numbered stock + miscellaneous in thick and padded stock book - Michel
Switzerland 1910/1985 - Michel-numbered stock + miscellaneous in thick and padded stock book - Michel
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€ 3.00
German Empire - Occupation of the Elzas (1940) - Maximum-value “Hindenburg” overprint stamp from the corner margin with plate number on registered - Michel-Nr. 16 W OR auf Brief
German Empire - Occupation of the Elzas (1940) - Maximum-value “Hindenburg” overprint stamp from the corner margin with plate number on registered - Michel-Nr. 16 W OR auf Brief
Closes in
€ 1.00