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  • 34 messages
  • September 16, 2022 14:13
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September 16, 2022 14:13
Question whether the face value of the following stamps are not a bit 'too'??
#6663043 1L B4 1.74 GU1 0.026kg
#7657995 1LG C4 0.95 0.093kg
#7651495 A Letter H5 1.40 0.012kg
There are many more under Great Britain. I honestly don't like it....
(but yes, who am I)

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September 16, 2022 14:17
I would say: 1.74; 0.95 and 1.40 and nothing else
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September 16, 2022 14:20
Another question about face value. See eg #357285 . Strictly speaking, the face value is 2. But we know that there was also a 2 cent surcharge to be paid. That's why 2+2 was probably filled in at some point, but it's not on the seal. Michel mentions 2 (+2). What do we think?
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September 16, 2022 15:50
The first examples are automatic stamps. The handbook says about this:

These stamps do not have to be entered separately in the catalog per face value. Despite the fact that the image indicates a specific value, or in the case of a blank vending machine stamp without value indication, the nominal value must be entered as, for example, '0.01-9999' depending on the issue options of the machine.

Although it often happens. In any case, the detailed information does not seem necessary. And anyway, the schipper53 proposal is better than what it says now :-)
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September 16, 2022 16:12
schipper53 For those special surcharge stamps, the face value is what it says on the stamp (as per the rule) and there is a comment in the details (validated by postmaster ). I started with this but there is someone who wants it different #3262003 ;-).

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September 16, 2022 16:59
What it says on the seal: a double value. 2 is mentioned twice.
So you could fill in '2 * 2' at face value.
Or suspect that it is '2+2' (2 with supplement 2).


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  • 34 messages
  • September 16, 2022 19:33
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September 16, 2022 19:33
Same issue twice:
https://www.lastdodo.nl/nl/areas/231225-1925-provincieweapons?cf%5B7839%5D=100293&filters%5B7839%5D=100293&scope=100293

https://www.lastdodo.nl/nl/areas/234103-1925-weapons?cf%5B7839%5D=100293&filters%5B7839%5D=100293&scope=100293

One like schipper53 and one like Jummeke, one with surcharge and the other without.
Raoul62, that kite doesn't fly like you see. For the other stamps twice the same value but a different surcharge is mentioned. (How to get the surcharge if it isn't on the stamp is another mystery).

For the UK's I agree with the schipper53 proposal, MennoGo seems to agree.
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September 16, 2022 20:09
ApiSta You can edit your own messages via the three dots at the top right of the message.
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September 16, 2022 20:12
On #554623 / # 357293 I see 2 times 7½

Why it says 7½+3½: no idea. That is NOT on it.

That it says '7½' as a face value: I can understand.
I can also understand '7½ * 7½'.
I can also understand '7½+7½'.
I can't understand '7½+3½' at all, but then I'm not Dutch :)
Sprung from the brain of a pseudo-intellectual, who (wants to) be smarter than the system and the agreements?
In any case, if an American has that seal, they will NEVER find that item by 'face value' if it says 7½+3½. Just try to prove me otherwise.
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September 16, 2022 20:40
ApiSta For vending machine stamps you follow the manual, but you do need some knowledge of what exactly was issued. If the machine always returns the same value, schipper53 is still right (eg 1.74). If the machine gives all random values then it will be 'lowest-highest' according to MennoGo (eg 0.01-99.99).
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September 16, 2022 20:41
So you could fill in '2 * 2' at face value.
I don't think that's the intention, an asterisk can only be used with
two values in different currencies
(Handbook 3.2 Double Value)

By the way, there are countless stamps on which the value is stated twice (and even in triplicate on the first stamps of Belgium). I think to keep the design symmetrical. It seems too confusing to me to take that literally everywhere.
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September 16, 2022 21:11
Raoul62 schipper53 Why keep asking now and not just read my previous answer (and apply the handbook)? I'm not interested in a public forum discussion.
7½ * 7½ --> no because only for different currencies
7½+7½ --> no because it doesn't matter that it is written twice, #313371 is not 20+20+20+20
7½+3½ --> no, because from the point of view of a Dutch specialist it is logical because it is stated in a catalogue, however, we have said before that LD does not follow a catalog but uses its own method, from an international point of view no collector will recognise
7½ --> yes, what it says literally, with a comment in details everywhere
Now we just have to get everyone on the same page and convince them otherwise we will keep adjusting the same items.
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September 16, 2022 23:01
just Jummeke we dirty too many words, and change too much.
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September 16, 2022 23:15
And to mention these 2 things:
- in my previous post I already mentioned that this was discussed with postmaster, and thanks to the new admin page I now know that his specialization is the Netherlands so it must be correct
- tip before you change important things : check the history, if you see changes from administrators there you might have to be a bit careful (not that I feel myself important or infallible, but you know what I mean...)
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September 17, 2022 09:20

Why it says 7½+3½: no idea. That is NOT on it.

Just to be clear if you didn't get it, I think it's wrong.
As a careful boy, and also because 7 different (ex-) managers have already tinkered with it (I always look in the history) and it is a specialty of an administrator, I will not mess with it.

My point was that a logic could be devised behind different notations, except '7½+3½'. No more and no less.
That's what I see, what I think (as a collector), and what I posted.

Furthermore, I ignore the Netherlands (and (former) areas) in all areas of the stamp section. Also for questions.


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  • 34 messages
  • September 17, 2022 12:40
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September 17, 2022 12:40
For vending machine stamps you follow the manual, but you do need some knowledge of what exactly was issued. If the machine always gives the same value then it is still right (eg 1.74). If the machine gives all random values then it will be according to 'lowest-highest' (eg 0.01-99.99).
Given the issues in which they 'hang', it will have to be 0.01-99.99 in my opinion!

That's what I see, what I think (as a collector), and what I posted.
And rightly so. The example in question is a strange one anyway, usually the surcharge is stated separately. Also in the Netherlands!?

Furthermore, I ignore the Netherlands (and (former) areas) in all areas of the stamp section. Also for questions.
That's a shame again, what I read from you here and there are usually useful contributions
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September 17, 2022 13:02
As a long-term manager, I do have some thoughts about how things are going, but I don't have any hard evidence, so it's just a theory.
In the beginning there was the idea of Catawiki, with its own database of all issued stamps from all over the world.
The starting point was an existing CD-Rom (commercially purchased?) with the first beginning, stamps of European countries with the low six-digit numbers. Before that, various people had bloodily retyped the NVPH catalog (perhaps even modern via Optical Character Reckognition OCR). These were paid workers, presumably without philatelic knowledge. Just copy literally.
A system was built to supplement this starting data, of course according to the wiki system. For this, however, a Stamp Handbook had to be created afterwards to keep everything manageable. Nothing should be done to the CD-ROM input.
Once everything was up and running, the realization came that some adjustments had to be made here and there, also in connection with the "internalization idea". So French, German and English are included, including rickety translations of the Handbook that were put on the system without checking. That led to chaotic situations. For example, the input screen contained: number in set , which an Englishman understands as: number in a series , and not, as was intended, serial number in the series .
After LastDodo was formed as a spin-off from Catawiki, the data from the CD-Rom became available for customization. This led to countless duplications, often because the user did not search properly and skipped the lowest database numbers (because the first display of a country is a selection, not everything).

So the problem is that the printed NVPH catalog was simply used. Every seasoned Dutch collector knows that those children's stamps of 7½ + 7½ are stamps with a 100% surcharge, so with a postage value of 7½ cents and a purchase value of 15 cents (difference for charity). I believe that in the beginning that surcharge was written under the seal in very tiny small print, as was the date of the last day of validity. That doesn't stand out.
Non-Dutch collectors usually do not know this and then draw a different conclusion, see above with the postings of a number of Belgians. To be clearer, you will have to explain the term "nominal value" better. As it stands, no non-Dutch person understands it, except for a few exceptions with the NVPH catalog in their possession.
With the current version of the Handbook it is clear: what is on it is stated at face value, nothing else. The sales value = counter price can then be stated in the explanation.
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September 17, 2022 13:17
7451Dick Nicely explained.
See also my first post in this thread and the history of #3262003 which has now been changed back. With the agreement of postmaster : face value = postage value (which is also on it), details = statement of the surcharge (which is not on it).
Afterwards, a Netherlands specialist with a catalog has to check for duplication, because as it stands it seems a mess.
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October 17, 2022 15:39
I just changed a face value (at #406747 spaces removed), but now I see that this notation is actually incorrect.

The postage value is 15 sant, but the value of 25 at the bottom right is the "pārdošanas cena", which means sale price . The surcharge is therefore actually only 10 sant.

This is an exception (which occurs with several stamps from Latvia) for which the Handbook gives no instruction. So what do we do with this?
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  • October 17, 2022 15:51
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October 17, 2022 15:51
stripspeldjes
Have a proposal 15+10=25
Maybe adjust the Handbook for such cases and you're done
Don't always have to be this hard.
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October 17, 2022 19:33
Against. The stamp says 15 and 25. So just mention 15+25. 15 was the postage value, 25 the selling price. That's what they did, with Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Have deliberately left it that way when reviewing those stamps!
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October 17, 2022 20:02
On #2784165 it says 6 and 6.

With which I just want to indicate that it is not so clear-cut for simple souls like myself.
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October 17, 2022 20:07
7451Dick
I don't think what you write is quite right.
You just write 15 + 25 mention, so you make a surcharge of 25 with the + sign and this is of course not correct.
There is a surcharge of 10 so in my opinion 15 + 10 = 25
Or just stating the value 25 only, as in this example, is also the sales value of the stamp, they do on other Sides too.
stripspeldjes
This with the two 6 left and right has nothing to do with surcharge the sales price here is just 6 have seen the same number in all corners, is what a designer makes of it.


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October 17, 2022 21:01
Lyonesse stripspeldjes Another exception that is not literally in the handbook. So we have to use common sense and the solution has to be fool-proof (a non-expert without a catalog has to find it). 15+25 is not literally as a surcharge with "+" and you claim that is not correct, 15+10 I can't know as a newbie, 15*25 is in the manual as different currency, 25#15 neither because it is no imprint...
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