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Helv
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May 05, 2024 10:29
Raoul62 If you assume that the prints on the three stamps are identical, then these items are not se-tenant.

Unlike pairs and blocks of 4, this does not seem to be a logical combination (note: pairs and blocks of 4 are currently not allowed and no plans have been formulated to do so in the near future).

I see three options:
  1. Delete (by super admin)
  2. Follow Briefmarke's suggestion and call it turning pressure. Any administrator can crop the wrong image.
  3. Keep the original stamp entry. Any administrator can crop the wrong image.

If they were new items I would argue for rejection.

Because these stamps were only assessed 2 years after being added, it was probably no longer possible for the administrator to reject the item (because there are more users attached to it).

Collectioneur would indeed also like your view on this.
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May 05, 2024 09:20
Collectioneur or Helv
Please do the needful for following items
- or toleration (please explain why);
- or remove it with a message to all those who are connected to it.

You could possibly call it a se-tenant of a bridge pair with the seal to also allow such items. Curious what the definition will look like after that. Or tolerate it so as not to damage popularity.

Or simply remove them because they are now not allowed items (blocks of 3). According to the definitions of LD, these are not Seal, Se-tenant or bridge pair items.
Or give in out of fear and allow everything from now on (including pairs, blocks of 3, blocks of 4, six-packs, blocks of 8, incomplete field parts, etc.). Provided, of course, that all these options are specified as 'Type'.

It can be seen where you want to go with the catalog in the long term. Depends on the 'management plan'.

#6923117
#6923137
#6923133
#6923125
#6923121
#6923129



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May 05, 2024 08:36
Can also be used as a 2nd image for one of the stamps from that combination


So se-tenants as the second image with the loose stamp nlae?.
I don't think this is the intention. But I don't know for sure either.
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nlae
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May 05, 2024 08:16
And whatever you do: there is always drama for Jul stamps from collectors of all combinations
Why - These fall under point 2 under the regulations
Combinations can be added as the following image(s) for illustration purposes.
There is plenty of room for that - All those combinations do not necessarily have to be added as an image to the largest possible se-tenant - Can also be added as a 2nd image to one of the stamps from that combination.
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May 05, 2024 07:07
I'm starting to lose the overview. If I'm right, full series of single items will soon always be possible regardless of se-tenant and now we're left with just a definition issue for se-tenant?

And I believe the definition issue starts with “maximum” se-tenant from block or sheet, which now only leaves what to do if there are physically separated parts, through vignettes/empty intermediate stamps or unperforated paper?

And whatever you do: there is always drama for Jul stamps from collectors of all combinations. The plea to always have a photo or comment in the shop, search list or collection for se-tenant seems to me to be a reasonably comprehensive mitigation compared to the alternative of individual items.
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Helv
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May 04, 2024 20:48
az60 I don't know what exactly you are responding to here:
One thing you should definitely not do is call a vignette/tab a stamp. A se-tenant consists of at least 2 seals according to the definition. In your example this could be a seal and a tab seal. Unfortunately, we call that a stamp with a tab. That is not possible. Or are you going to change all stamps with a tab to se-tenant?
but I think that was precisely the comment that you should continue to distinguish between seal with tab and se-tenants (with vignette).

The point is to clarify that definition (difference between...).

It will be the se-tenant I mentioned with a tab, then the blue seal, then the red seal and then the previously mentioned tab again.
Unless I'm missing something, you have two identical tabs. For me the logical choice is #7279033 because they are also in one sheet (but of course that is not always that way).
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nlae
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May 04, 2024 19:37
az60 Point 3 only applies to stamps with vignettes and has absolutely nothing to do with Jul stamps
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az60
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May 04, 2024 19:13
Charles1971 Helv
One thing you should definitely not do is call a vignette/tab a stamp. A se-tenant consists of at least 2 seals according to the definition. In your example this could be a seal and a tab seal. Unfortunately, we call that a stamp with a tab. That is not possible. Or are you going to change all stamps with a tab to se-tenant? So never, ever give the same name to a stamp and a vignette/tab in the definition. What you call that outside the definition is up to you.
At 3: Vignettes are allowed in a se-tenant (there are at least two real stamps) or in the variant mentioned by Helv, some tinkering still needs to be done. Due to the text 'at least 2 real stamps', a se-tenant can never be included in the catalog for the editions detested by Raoul that were not issued for postal use (and are therefore never 'real stamps'). This also applies to the Jul seals. That can be a choice, but I estimate that it will be collected.
If you remove point 4, neither is possible #3986263 , nor #7279033 and definitely not #3986251 will be included in the catalogue. It will be the se-tenant I mentioned with a tab, then the blue seal, then the red seal and then the previously mentioned tab again. The maximum number of stamps and vignettes is then 4 and not 3. If you want to choose that, fine. I don't save se-tenants anyway. But there will be little understanding for this. If you do not formulate something in this direction, it will always remain unclear how many vignettes can be included. And I wouldn't include that in the general definition piece. This is fairly generally applicable, while the hassle with vignettes is something that LastDodo determines. In my opinion, point 4 should certainly remain, but can be adjusted.
I can live with rule 5 gone. It is a choice that collectors have to make. It does mean adding more items to the catalog, making the essence more confusing and confusing.
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May 04, 2024 18:30
Typical for the forum: only partially discuss and possibly solve problems.
Nowadays, the FDC is no longer issued in Belgium by the post, but the first day sheet. 
The Belgian post apparently does not use the term "eerstedagblad" but uses the English term "FDS" (abbreviation first day sheet).
“Eerstedagblad” is in the list of types but not FDS.
And then there is the first day card, but whether this type has an abbreviation? (Certainly not FDC as an abbreviation for First Day Card).
Why not try to find a joint solution (without having another discussion on the same theme within a few weeks or months ...)?

N.B. Again bad translation!


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May 04, 2024 18:05
Frenchstamps
Everyone decides for themselves what they want to waste their time on...
Just like you decide what you want to waste your time on...
What is completely unimportant to one person is therefore not important to another...
And everyone collects what he/she wants...

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May 04, 2024 16:06
That's all a bit ridiculous, but if you have time to waste on the hobby, it doesn't matter to me

Then why are you reading these messages Frenchstamps?. Apparently you don't have anything less ridiculous to do then?
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May 04, 2024 16:01
If "seals" were replaced by something that also covers "vignettes" then 4 could be removed

A vignette also seems to me to be a kind of stamp Helv?.

Maybe something for point 3,
If the maximum se-tenant from a block or sheet is a stamp and a vignette, these are placed under seal with tab.
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May 04, 2024 15:58
All that is a bit ridiculous but if you have time to waste for the hobby doesn’t matter me
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May 04, 2024 15:31
Boekenmagazijn
Thanks for confirming that it has been a name variant for 7 years.
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May 04, 2024 15:28
Collectioneur
Only since 2017, to be precise: FDC
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Helv
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May 04, 2024 15:28
Charles1971 in the introduction it is mentioned that "seals" in a se-tenant must be different from each other. If "seals" were replaced by something that also covers "vignettes" then 4 could be removed.
If not, you can still consider combining 3 and 4, but I don't know if that has any real advantage.
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May 04, 2024 15:00
Indeed, point 3 must remain Helv, otherwise you will have problems with the stamp with a tab. Well noted.

But I think point 4 can also be removed?.
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Helv
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May 04, 2024 14:53
Charles1971 , az60 and Collectioneur it also seems easier to omit point 5. Then I think you are also more in line with "Seal with tab", where another tab on the same stamp leads to a new item.

In my opinion, point 3 cannot be deleted because it allows 1 franking stamp and 1 tab that fall under the type "Seal with tab". You could start with:

[edit] There are at least two real stamps. In addition, vignettes are permitted.
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May 04, 2024 14:31
A vignette is a stamp, and each different stamp is part of the largest possible se-tenant. So 3 and 4 can be canceled. 5 seems to me to already be at 1, so it can also be deleted.

Maybe something like Collectioneur , finish one agenda item first, then move on to the next item.
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May 04, 2024 14:06
az60
Thanks for your thoughts.
Personally, I would choose the combination of 4 and 5, because this is clearer.
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May 04, 2024 14:02
The naming of FDC remains simply FDC. Every Dutch-speaking collector knows and uses that concept.
"First day envelope" has been introduced as a name variant for a long time (since the beginning?) so you can also search for that.

There is not really a Dutch expression for the typical English expression "Pick/choose your battle". But the expression does apply here:-)
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az60
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May 04, 2024 13:56
Or combine 4 and 5?
4 All vignettes in a se-tenant differ from each other in image, color and/or other characteristics. If multiple se-tenants can be formed from one sheet, where only the vignette is different, only 1 is allowed (others can be used as the next image(s)).
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May 04, 2024 13:37
To put it in good English "Pick your battles"

Then again, I'm disappointed with your Helv.

Then say in old Dutch, choose your battles. Choose your front, on the other hand, seems to me to be another English corruption.
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az60
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May 04, 2024 13:36
From the above picture you can also get the following combination:
Tab, blue seal, red seal, identical tab.
Given that that form is not included in the catalog, can I assume that this is not considered a separate se-tenant? Can I therefore draw the conclusion that identical tabs (just like identical seals) are not allowed in a se-tenant?
Then I come to the following proposal:

10.12 Se-tenant
A se-tenant is a combination of 2 or more different stamps, originating from a block, sheet or sheet that are still attached to each other. All stamps in a se-tenant differ from each other in image, color, value, print and/or other characteristics.

The following additions apply to LastDodo:
  1. Only the largest possible block or strip is allowed as a se-tenant. Parts of the largest possible se-tenant are not permitted.
  2. If different combinations can be torn from one sheet, both in terms of order of the stamps and shape (horizontal strip, vertical strip, block), then only one item will be included on LD. Other combinations can be added as the following image(s) for illustration purposes.
  3. Vignettes are allowed in a se-tenant (there are at least two real stamps).
  4. All vignettes in a se-tenant differ from each other in image, color and/or other characteristics.
  5. If multiple se-tenants can be formed from one sheet, where only the vignette is different, only 1 is allowed (others can be used as the next image(s)).
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May 04, 2024 13:31
The "Sluis envelopes" were the predecessors of the official FDCs issued by the NVPH. I suspect that they were inspired by his example to issue FDCs in 1950 (commercial). Personally, I think the Sluis envelopes are highly underrated in the catalogs compared to the first issues of NVPH,
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