Music/Shellak or bakelite plate20 messages

Heb een elpee 78-toeren van disque "la voix de son maitre"

het moet een zeer oude zijn, want het telefoonnummer vermeld van de verkoper = Magne Cherbourg Tél 5-13

Kan iemand me vertellen hoe ik kan weten of het bakeliet of shellak is en van welk jaar ze is?

Zie 4935141

Have a 78rpm LP of disque "la voix de son maitre"

it must be a very old one, because the telephone number of the seller = Magne Cherbourg Tél 5-13

Can someone tell me how to tell if it is bakelite or shellac and what year it is?

See 4935141

I think 1927 . From that year there are already 2 others in it.

Record is made of shellac / shellac (see background page at 78 rpm record). It is a persistent misunderstanding that such plates are made of Bakelite.

Vertigo, volgens de meeste sites, zou er rond de jaren 50 bakeliet gebruikt zijn in plaats van shellak.Heb ook gezien dat er in veilingen van Catawiki regelmatig gesporken wordt overbakeliet platen!!!!

Kdamme, bij de andere twee hebben ze wel het verkeerde nummer bij de release gezet (alle drie zelfde releasenummer). Ze hebben het catalogusnummer vermeld. Zeker is dat het een andere reeks betreft.  Deze plaat W-979 andere d-1428.

Vertigo, according to most sites, Bakelite would have been used instead of shellac around the 1950s. Have also seen that Bakelite plates are regularly used in Catawiki auctions!!!!

Kdamme, with the other two they did put the wrong number on the release (all three have the same release number). They listed the catalog number. It is certain that it concerns a different series. This plate W-979 other D-1428.

@lordernie:

I don't know which sites you are talking about. You are probably talking about vinyl records sites, but for example a Bakelite specialized site like http://bakeliet.net/ is not talking about creating of the gramophone records.

In the Wikipedia "bakelite" it says that 78 rpm records were made of it. The "shellac" states that this material was used for grammar records until 1959. I think only the latter is correct.

It is an iron law that people (including collectors and auctioneers) like to talk to each other, especially when it comes to a subject that few people really know about ( the chemical composition of a product). In addition, there is a tunnel vision. When we see an early plastic, which is black, red or brown, most people think, based on previous experience, that it is Bakelite.

However, there are important indications that the 78rpm records cannot be made of Bakelite:

- Bakelite is probably too hard. A material for a gramophone record must be able to wear very lightly, otherwise the needle will bounce;

- Bakelite is fragile, but not extremely fragile like 78rpm records;

- "Bakelite" and "Bakelite" are protected trade names. Then you would expect that one of these terms can be found on the label of a gramophone record. I have not yet seen a record with this term mentioned. The use of the material shellac has been known for centuries. The name shellac is not protected. That does not need to be mentioned.

I have not been able to find a reliable source on the internet that endorses the use of Bakelite.

And thus proof that Wikipedia or other media on the internet should not always be taken for granted!

My idea was also that plates were made of bakkelite or bakelite, because the very thick plates ( I think they at least very thick) feel like bakelite. But as you already mentioned, Vertigo, a plate is also very fragile and Bakelite also shines less than shellac I think. Bakkelite is indeed derived from a brand product, such as for example Maggi or the Grammophone record. The text Grammophone record is also on many old records, so that is correct. But I could also be wrong, but I think it descended from a company called Grammophone who also invented it or bought the patent.

Heb een kijkje genomen op bakeliet.net, waar de meeste produkten vermeld staan die in bakeliet werden gemaakt, en zoals je zei vertigo, daar staan ook geen platen bij, dus denk ik wel dat je 100% gelijk hebt

Had a look at bakeliet.net, where most products are listed that were made in bakelite, and as you said vertigo, there are no plates there either, so I think you're 100% right

@lordernie: Thank you for your trust!

I was not quite sure myself, because my evidence is based on certain assumptions anyway. So I looked a little further.

To cut a long story short, it appears that a variant of Bakelite was used for the surface of Edison Diamond Disc Records. However, an Edison Diamond Disc Record was not a "normal" 78 rpm record, you needed special playback equipment to play it (with a diamond needle). Probably that was the reason that this Bakelite record has not become market-leading (despite the fact that the quality of the sound was better and the playing time of the record longer). make sure to arrange shellac (+ fillers and coloring).