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  • January 13, 2023 10:08
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January 13, 2023 10:08
The "Handbuch-Briefmarken",- I have the german version only -,is difficult to understand.
It is likely a (bad) automatic translation,often seemingly senceless.
For pricing FDC´s it states that ("undatierte") i.e. un-dated FDC´s (a contradiction in itself)
should be listed as mint,n.h..
Is perhaps meant un -addressed envelopes ?
Un-addressed FDC´s = mint   Adressed FDC´s used ?
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  • January 13, 2023 10:35
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January 13, 2023 10:35
That's right Salentin
For FDC, 2 price quotations of catalog value are relevant.
Covers without an address, which are given the condition 'Minnatfris' (DU: 'Minnafrisch').
Covers with an address on it (typed or written), which are given the condition 'Stamped' (DU: 'Used').

Curious what the forum translation will do with this post :)

Collectioneur there is clearly still work to be done on the German handbook of stamps. And German is not my thing at all.
Maybe Charles1971 can help with this?

And then, in case of any adjustment, I would immediately suggest omitting the suggestion regarding the use of the price suggestion system.
That is of no use at all, because those suggestions disappear into a black hole (an unrealistic large and unsorted mountain that you can't make head or tail of), with uncertainty whether they will ever be looked at.
Any kind of promotion for that system should disappear.
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  • January 13, 2023 10:39
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January 13, 2023 10:39
The translation of
Mint
and
Stamped
by the forum translation in english is hilarious :)
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  • January 13, 2023 10:42
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January 13, 2023 10:42
"Quote" also translates everything ... let's try with quotes:
The translation of "MNH" and "Stamped" by the forum translation in English is hilarious :)
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  • January 13, 2023 10:54
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January 13, 2023 10:54
The "Handbuch-Briefmarken",- I have the german version only -,is difficult to understand.
It is likely a (bad) automatic translation, often seemingly senceless.

No, was not an automatic translation. Chapter 27 Catalog value is now automatically translated and that is better. If you view LastDodo in the English version, you will also automatically receive the English manual.

Raoul62
there is clearly still work to be done on the German manual on stamps. And German is not my thing at all.
Maybe this can help?

I've already asked Charles1971 to tell me exactly what's wrong with the German translation. The starting point is and remains the Dutch text, the content of the other language versions must be the same as in the NL version.

And then, in case of any adjustment, I would immediately suggest omitting the suggestion regarding the use of the price suggestion system.

No, suggestions for better catalog values are an essential part of LastDodo. It is a pity that there is currently a huge backlog in reviewing it, but that should not be a reason to omit this.
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  • 173 messages
  • January 13, 2023 11:32
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January 13, 2023 11:32
O.K.,I understood that un-addressed is equivalent to mint,n.h. 
and adressed are equivalent to used,in pricing FDC´s.
I just wonder why to make any distinction between the two in
the first place.I know no catalogue,who does.
But anyway:
the "Handbuch" starts with a wrong definition of a FDC,
as it describes it as an illustrated envelope.
The old and often very expensive First Day Covers are of 
course plain covers,just with (a) stamp(s),used on the day 
of issue.Illustrated covers just became widespread in the
20th century.
Do I understand the "Handbuch" correctly,that FDC´s of the
same stamp-issue,but with a different illustration are not
permitted to list seperately ?
I ask,because I know of a collector,who collects FDC´s
of the 1945 Iwo-Jima commemorative stamp of the USA.
He already has more than a hundred different ones.
That would be overblown to list so many varieties,but
f.i. if you take the official FDC´s from the UN and commercial
private ones.Could be interesting to compare them.
But then I agree this could be done by the two possible
additional pictures,available in the listing.
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  • January 13, 2023 11:44
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January 13, 2023 11:44
Salentin
The current text at FDC is the result of extensive discussions. See for example the topic FDC in LastDodo .
No matter how a definition is described, there are always people who have a different opinion. That is allowed, but we use the current agreements. I like to leave the further answering of the detailed substantive questions to expert administrators.
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  • January 13, 2023 12:21
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January 13, 2023 12:21
I did a quick read through the German handbook, Collectioneur and Raoul62 and I must say, chapeau bas to the translator.

two little things,
Undatiert can be replaced by unbeschrieben, Werner fell over this, but it is also a matter of 'wanting' to understand.
Aschenputel can simply be replaced by Cinderella, plural Cinderellas. Now it is translated that a Cinderella is a Cinderella.
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  • January 13, 2023 13:11
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January 13, 2023 13:11
If you have the German manual Salentin you can also convert it to English. At the top right, left next to the question mark are the language settings. You can also register twice, once in German and once in English. You can then run the English version and the German version side by side.
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  • January 13, 2023 13:39
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January 13, 2023 13:39
I quickly read through the German handbook, and I must say, kudos to the translator.

Special thanks to Loriot , who did the basic translation. Small adjustments were made later, which may have gone wrong.
Thank you for your Cinderella proposal, that has now also been amended, please check.
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  • January 13, 2023 13:52
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January 13, 2023 13:52
just check.

This one was good Collectioneur , see if I actually check. And don't just say yes is fine.

The r and the l of Cinderella, one too many and one too little.
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  • January 13, 2023 13:57
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January 13, 2023 13:57
Charles1971
Minor corrections to typos will not receive a new version number.
It's Cinderella now, thanks for that.
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  • January 13, 2023 16:49
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January 13, 2023 16:49
Collectioneur
Have a few adjustments.
It concerns 10.4 Ersttagsbrief (FDC)
Then comes,
1. Unterschiedliche Farben von Briefmarken führen nicht zu getrennten Sendungen.
This should be, 1. Unterschiedliche Stempelfarben führen nicht zu separater Artikel.
At 2 it says, führt nicht zu getrennten Sendungen, this must be, führt nicht zu separater Artikel.
At 2 it says, ist kein separater Posten, this should be, ist kein separater Article.
At 3 it says, ergeben keine gesonderten Sendungen, this must be, ergeben keine separater Artikel.
At 4 it says, führen zu separaten Sendungen, this must be, führen zu separater Artikel.
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  • January 13, 2023 17:09
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January 13, 2023 17:09
Lyonesse an ETB is not an FDC.
1. Marke = Item,Item ?. This is more close I think?.
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  • January 13, 2023 17:29
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January 13, 2023 17:29
Charles1971
Already modified it.
Translation from item to Article I also had at first, but changed it to Marke(n)
But you're right, it's not about stamps, it's about FDCs
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  • January 13, 2023 17:37
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January 13, 2023 17:37
Lyonesse Charles1971
I had already changed Sendungen to Item(s).
Thanks for these messages.
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  • January 13, 2023 17:48
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January 13, 2023 17:48
The problem is if you say Lyonesse , different stamp colors (with an FDC) lead to different stamps, then Item or Article comes across better, doesn't it?.

Never mind, the messages are getting mixed up again. I'm late again.
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  • January 13, 2023 18:55
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January 13, 2023 18:55
Do I understand the "Handbuch" correctly,that FDC´s of the
same stamp-issue,but with a different illustration are not
permitted to list seperately ?
Allowed FDC:
- every envelope where the envelope illustration and/or official city stamp is different is a new item (oh troubles, how to translate this : a stamp with a stamp ???)
Not allowed FDC:
- home-made envelopes from other cities which have nothing to do with the first day
- the same envelope over and over again with one stamp of a series, when not official issue (we take once the official envelope with the complete (or most) stamps
- creating an item with multiple FDC in the same item as "Series"
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  • January 13, 2023 19:34
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January 13, 2023 19:34
how to translate
cancellation = cancellation
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  • January 13, 2023 21:56
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January 13, 2023 21:56
In other words: you don't manage FDCs on LD, except when it comes to 'official' FDCs: the commercial issues issued by the private firm NVPH of the Netherlands. None of which have been issued in Belgium or France lol
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January 13, 2023 22:29
Raoul62 You know very well that there are plenty of possibilities to keep FDC (and also occasional covers) from various publishers on LD, as long as it is not your own work of which only 1 or a few copies exist.
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  • January 14, 2023 12:45
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January 14, 2023 12:45
Thanks to Loriot section 10.4 of the handbook in German is now in line with the Dutch text.
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  • January 14, 2023 19:02
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January 14, 2023 19:02
Not bad for a French speaker. Good job Loriot
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  • 173 messages
  • January 18, 2023 14:25
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January 18, 2023 14:25
Some of the many wrong translations into German is the following
curios one:
On the left column the page "Briefmarken" and in the matrix for
adding new stamps is the line "Verzähnung".
In German "Verzähnung" is mis-perforation,while perforation simply
is "Zähnung".
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  • January 18, 2023 14:43
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January 18, 2023 14:43
In German "Verzähnung" is wrong perforation, while perforation is common
is "Zahnung".

Interesting, because I think it has always been "Verzähnung". Are there more German-speaking stamp collectors who also think so or is "Perforationen" a better alternative?
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