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Sorry I'm not looking properly. Ignore this. (cannot delete my post, only edit it)

---

1) Aden - Kathiri State of Seiyun in Hadhramaut
2) Qu'aiti State in Hadhramaut

I think there are many stamps under 1) that belong under 2).
An example of this is #1079933 + the rest from that series.

The is a lot of work to move them all 1 by 1.
Is there perhaps an admin trick for that?

Or maybe I should first ask if my statement is correct?

< br>
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May 14, 2022 07:30
You can still delete the content...
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And then leave an empty message?
That's funny...
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May 14, 2022 08:12
Put a little statement in there anyway. I've done it too, just a dash or dot, nobody falls for that.
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May 14, 2022 08:54
koenkuijpers

Koen, you are right. Are two different spellings for the same area.
At the end of last year, many "doubt cases", mainly from the Catawiki era, were added to LastDodo. That still generates a lot of questions and comments ("suddenly changed"), and especially a lot of work for the administrators. A lot of duplication has been suddenly caused, which can only be eliminated slowly.
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May 14, 2022 09:47
Then the message is still relevant, isn't it?
I'll see what the difference is on the background pages. If so much work and energy has already gone into it, there must be an explanation there ... or I must also follow the same search path from the beginning ...
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7451Dick 
Background descriptions seem pretty similar to me... is one area now a 'DOUBLURE of' the other area? Or is there a detail that makes it different?
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May 14, 2022 10:03
So the difference is what is captioned on the stamps: 'SAIYUN' or 'QU'AITI STATE'.
I have now tried to make that clear with an image in both backgrounds.
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May 14, 2022 10:08
Ignore this

Your post wasn't that bad. I didn't see it right away either. See whether the 'Background page' is attracting your eyes to the difference?
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May 14, 2022 10:25
Supposedly "Kathiri", "Quati" means something similar to "Hashemite kingdom of", Islamic" state, "sultanate", thus a religious qualification. According to my SG they are two separate areas that together with a piece of the Protectorate of Aden formed the short-lived Federation of South Arabia, which was soon succeeded by the People's Republic of Yemen (don't confuse it with the Kingdom of Yemen!).  In short, there are minor differences in the inscriptions of the earliest stamps of these areas, bearing in mind that the images and overprints are often identical.
Raoul62  If you come across my previously entered stamps from Seiyun, please report it, they have suddenly disappeared from my collection .......
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7451Dick 
I have already switched one from Seiyun to Qu'aiti.
And already reported several duplications in Seiyun (Kathiri).
There is clearly work to be done on this. What a messy mess :)
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Probably will be the reason why they were in "karantine". Had it sorted out once, ten years ago. But yes, progressive insight, huh.
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May 14, 2022 10:53
Hm, if the number of teeth horizontally and vertically is the same ... how can you have a completely different perforation???

#1132685 a> (K 12 1/2)
#5134517 (K 13:14)
I don't have Gibbons ... can someone with a Gibbons let's check whether the catalog under no. 29 mentions different issues that can be distinguished by their perforation?
And can someone who owns this stamp have a look at how many teeth his copy has, and which perforation is for it? And what is the exact size of that stamp in mm, measured including the perforation?

Preferably determining the perforation with a digital perforation meter, then discussion is out of the question. But another way will probably not be a problem for an experienced philatelist.

same for Gibbons no. 30
#5134545 (12: 13)
#1132691 (K 12 1/2)

...

I'll stop for now . Time for the apero :)
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May 14, 2022 13:59
Hm, if the number of teeth horizontally and vertically is the same ... how can you have a completely different perforation???
Different format :-)

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May 14, 2022 20:05
So: SG 29 was only made in 12 1/2 according to that catalog.
# 1132685 should therefore be the only true one.

walkIn
Is it possible for #5134517 check the perforation?
And for #5134545 too?
There is a suspicion that these are duplications, with a wrong perforation in the item at the moment.

Loriot
I suspect that SG has an /rounds to a half (1/2). Is this correct?
Then couldyour own measurement be a quarter higher or lower.

How we deal with rounding / rounding when perforating in the stamp section on LD .. maybe postmaster  can help? I think LD has not yet taken a position on this (nothing in the manual).
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May 14, 2022 20:08
az60 
It is always possible that the format of the basic stamp is different. The dimensions are not included here. However, I can't find any other representations similar to it. The chance of a different format is small. I may have missed it. Everyone sometimes misses the mark ...
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Raoul62
The #1132685 and the #1132691 with Perforation 12 1/2 have I found, also adjusted them.
Can't find dimensions of the stamps either.


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May 14, 2022 20:26
Lyonesse 
Collectors/sellers from Spain usually know what they are doing. So don't touch the others. It could be a mistake, or something we're overlooking. The person who added the items can best estimate that. Hopefully there will be a response
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7451Dick Raoul62

Well, this message will still get a decent follow-up. Good thing I didn't make it a full stop or dash.

Now on LD we have 3 'countries' (well more, but which are relevant here):

Aden - Kathiri State of Seiyun in Hadhramaut
2 Aden - Qu'aiti State of Shihr and Mukulla a>
Qu'aiti State in Hadramaut
Aren't those last two actually the same? There are also stamps of 2 under 3. If not, what's the difference? Because I can't make much sense from the history of those Sultanates, except that they all eventually formed South Yemen. And later together with North Yemen, Yemen.

Furthermore I think (letterpurist) that Hadhramaut is English for Hadramaut (see first and last country).
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May 15, 2022 00:54
It concerns the area Hadhramaut (now Yemen). There were different areas in it. Including an area Kathiri (Seiyun) and an area Quaiti (Shihr + Mukulla). Each issued those stamps in a certain period. Very similar, but the inscription on the stamps was clear to distinguish them.





To me 2 and 3 also seem to be the same area are because the padding is incorrect.
However, with regard to stamps there are indeed 3 areas to distinguish as they appear on LD:
1< /strong>   Aden - Kathiri State of Seiyun in Hadhramaut
2   Aden - Qu'aiti State of Shihr and Mukulla
3   Qu'aiti State in Hadhramaut< br>The 3rd one should also have 'Aden - ' in front of it.

Actually there are 7 different stamp areas for the ADEN area I found:
  • Aden 1937 – 1963
  • Kathiri State of Seiyun 1942 – 1967
  • Mahra Sultanate of Qishn & Socotra 1967 – 1968
  • Qu'Aiti State in Hadhramaut 1955 – 1967
  • Qu'Aiti State of Shihr & Mukalla 1942 – 1955
  • South Arabian Federation 1963 – 1968
  • Upper Yafa 1967 only


7451Dick 
You have items LD area 2 and 3 in collection ...  that are together or separately with you?

#4198639 one has been added by you in area 2.  Area 3 says #5591447
The perforation does not match. But with what you once wrote, I know that it actually corresponds: you round to a half. 13 3/4 then becomes 14.
So both stamps could be the same.

I still have no idea how to deal with that on LD. One can hardly become a variant of the other, because in both cases it concerns the same stamp. Even if one is incorrectly located in a different area.



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koenkuijpers
You forgot this one:
Aden
There were several sultanates in what was then South Yemen: Qu'aiti, Kathiri, Mahra, Upper Yafa and Aden (British). All were in or near the Hadhramaut region (Hadhramaut in English). Seiyun was the great city (capital?) of Kathiri. Shihr and Mukalla (no Mukulla) were cities of Qu'aiti. So 2 and 3 are the same. You will also see the same head of the sultan on both. All sultanates may or may not have been part of the Protectorate of Aden.
So I can agree with the names (next to Aden):
1 Aden - Kathiri State of Seiyun in Hadhramaut
2 Aden - Qu'aiti State of Shihr and Mukalla
But there no dog finds the seals without Aden on the seal. It is (I hope, but in any case was) customary at Lastdodo to put the (Dutch translation of the) name on the stamp as a country in the catalog. This way everyone can quickly find the relevant stamp. So
Kathiri State of Seiyun in Hadhramaut
Qu'aiti State of Shihr and Mukulla
Qu'aiti State in Hadhramaut
add as alias of the above names. You can also choose only Kathiri and Qu'aiti.
Raoul62 
You were too quick for me.
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I still have no idea how to deal with that on LD. One can hardly become a variant of the other, because in both cases it concerns the same stamp. Even if one is incorrectly located in a different area.
I also assume that there is only 1 type. You know that the different catalogs work differently. One catalog works with quarters, the other only with halves. And unfortunately, most people copy the catalogs instead of copying them themselves. Lastdodo works with quarters. When stamps differ so little, they have been entered by different people, they are not indicated as perforation variants and the large catalogs only indicate 1 type, then I would make 1 stamp of it. If there are still 2 variants, then someone with knowledge, having both variants in possession and having measured the perforation himself, will enter it correctly.
Incidentally, these small differences can be. Indonesia, for example, used the comb 12.7:12.6 from 1951, rounded up to 12 3/4. In 1954 this comb was replaced by a 12.6:12.6 comb, rounded to 12 1/2.
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May 15, 2022 09:35
az60 
So 2 and 3 are the same
No. It is the content on LD that is the same. But many items are wrong (duplicate in wrong area). The packaging (area, denomination) refers to different areas.

Those areas need to be purged, but there I, and perhaps everyone else, encounter the problem of perforation, where the rounding rules (which don't exist on LD) pose a problem.
It is not only 'copying from a catalog' that is the cause. As I mentioned, I know that 7451Dick rounds (or rounds off) the (self-measured) perforation to the half. While I work with quarters for example. Because I use a digital perforation gauge that does that for me.

Below is a little tidbit related to the above:
I used the 'Dimensions' field for that a while ago what to paint. With a good scan and the dimensions you can determine whether a specified perforation, of a seal that is toothed , is close to the realistic. And whether your own post-measurement deviates because of 'rounding rules'.
If you start calculating with the correct measurements and counting the teeth, and you arrive at something between 12.7 and 12.8 ... then you know that Depending on the rules (catalogue or own measurement), the perforation can end up at 12 1/2 - 12 3/4 or 13.
There was then a deviation from the 'Dimensions'  field due to the core of matter by adding the imperforate copies (what to put there in the dimensions ...) . But it was not about imperforate specimens. It dealt with the dimensions of the serrated, and then neatly the stamp itself (including the perforation). That's what it was about: using existing elements (fields) correctly to take advantage of them (calculating the perforation).

Determining yourself (calculating based on rules) is then the next step. And there we need a rule on LD imho. An appointment. Without an appointment you will get situations as mentioned above: 2 items, different perforation, but (clearly) the same stamp.
The fact that the 2 same items are in a different area doesn't make it any easier.
< br>Exceptional you could say: if the number of teeth matches, then it is a duplication. This is useful for concretely solving exceptional situations. But unfortunately, such situations are no longer exceptional. And then it pays to make clear agreements for it.

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because the padding is wrong
Raoul62 I don't know what you mean by this.

But no dog will find the stamps there without Aden on the stamp
What do you mean? For example, see #728797. There is no Aden on it (South Arabia by the way).

I think we have the following states/sultanates (whether or not under the protection of the British Empire, executed by Aden or under the Federation of South Arabia) - I limit me to the two in this discussion:
Kathiri
Qu'aiti

The fact that they have had different names does not change that in my opinion.
Kathiri State of Seiyun
Kathiri State in Hadramaut
Qu'aiti State of Shihr and Mukalla
Qu'aiti State in Hardramaut
Aden addition
South Arabia addition

The addition 'State of Seiyun', 'State in Hadhramaut', 'State of Shir and Mukalla' is not necessary in my opinion. 'Kathiri State of Seiyun in Hadramaut' I do not find on any stamp. Or am I overlooking it?
I don't think the prefix 'Aden' is necessary either; after all, the states/sultanates have not been under the protection of Aden/British Empire during the entire period. And when they later became part of the Federation South Arabia, the stamps concerned were not placed there either.

So:
OR 2 areas
Kathiri
Qu'aiti

OR 6 areas
Kathiri State of Seiyun / Kathiri State in Hadramaut
Qu'aiti State of Shihr and Mukalla / Kathiri State in Hadramaut
Aden - Kathiri State of Seiyun
South Arabia - Kathiri State of Seiyun
Aden - Qu'aiti State in Hadhramaut
South Arabia - Qu'aiti State in Hadhramaut

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